Shout! Factory Community - an ignorant ramble/suggestion

1/18/2008 1:14 AM

Member since: 1/16/2008

an ignorant ramble/suggestion

Greetings, I'm new and I had something I wanted to say that's been on my mind.

Now, the opinion among animation geeks on the internet--and I'm sorry if this offends anybody--is that Shout Factory is kind of a doomsday pit of animation. As has been noted in this very forum, Shout Factory has a hard time making best-sellers of any of their boxed sets, even of shows that were really big hits back in the day and still have solid followings. The common accusations are that Shout doesn't promote their stuff and that there's a general lack of availability. Now, I'm not going to lay the blame on Shout for that, as I understand that there are a lot of factors in this business I don't know about.

However, the fact of the matter is that among the animation fan groups I've hung with, Shout Factory has become almost a swear word. A lot of people refuse to buy anything released by Shout because, bottom line is animation fans are completists and if they buy one volume, they expect to get the entire series eventually. Now, its true that in refusing to support Shout they kind of create a self-fulfilling prophecy, but I can honestly see their reasoning, being one who bought COPS and Carmen Sandiego on release day, and having bought the Animation Station budget discs before that, in order to encourage further releases. But the complete series have not been forthcoming and prospects are low at this point.

Now, Complete Series are what I want to talk about....

Recently I've noticed that at least a few cartoons have gotten the "Complete Series" treatment. The Littles, Dungeons & Dragons, and most surprisingly Highlander the Animated Series, just to name a few.

I call Highlander the most surprising both because of its relative obscurity and because the MSRP of the set is only $24.99 (though you can usually get it for less) for a [b]forty episode[/b] series. TMNT Season Four has the same amount of episodes and is similarily priced.

How do they get so low? My guess is, they cut corners. The episodes are sourced from the best masters they have on hand, but there's no attempt to remaster them. The menu animations are done cheaply if there are any menu animations at all, there aren't any extras (or on TMNT S4: just some cheap ones they cobbled together), and they put about eight episodes on each disc.

You know... honestly, I would like more shows to be released that way. Not only is it cheaper for me but it also eliminates some inconveniences. I'll be blunt: I hate animated menus and logos. My ideal DVD would be one where I just slip it in and it boots me straight to an episode selection menu. If you must run logos and commercials first, fine, but at least make them skippable. Extras are a cool novelty, but most DVDs that aren't by BCI have extras that I would rather pass on (and no offense Brian but the Shout DVDs I've seen so far have had pretty tame extras). People claim that putting more episodes on the discs lowers the video quality, but honestly the loss is negligable in my experience. Digital remastering is a picky issue, but suffice to say I don't blame anyone if they don't go out of their way to make a children's cartoon from yesterdecade look state-of-the-art. All I care about is that the video doesn't get staticy to the point where I have no idea what's going on, and that the sound doesn't hiss or have any noises that drown out the dialogue and music.

The bottom line is that, I buy these sets for the episodes first and foremost. Everything else is a novelty that I would gladly pass on if the trade off was more episodes.

Which brings me to my ignorant suggestion which is probably going to be rediculed and shot down because I don't have the backs to fact up my opinion, but which I'm going to toss out anyway just because its better to try and fail than to never try at all:

Shout should consider going for "Complete Series" sets.

I don't mean of just short, thirteen-episode shows. I mean of shows like Cops and Carmen Sandiego and Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog. Let's take COPS for example since that seems to be everyone's sore spot: It's only 66 episodes long... so if you put eight episodes a disc you could fit the entire series on six discs. Then leave out fancy menus and extras (honestly I really hated the menus on the COPS boxed set, because they had that "hard job/tough beat" metallic theme that totally didn't fit the show at all) and use the cheapest packaging available to keep the price down.

Now, I'm not ignorant enough to garuntee that this would be any more successful than the current boxed sets, however it certainly can't do any worse, and it does have a notable advantage in that, whether it sells or not, at least people can't complain that Shout isn't putting out the whole series anymore.

It works in the UK, where everything is twice as expensive, so why not in the USA?

Thanks for reading, and please don't hurt me too much.

1/18/2008 5:29 AM

milesdx

Member since: 2/10/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

I think that most of people buying Shouts sets (especially those reading these forums) knows what their getting into. I for one bought Sonic Underground Vol one to help promote sales for Adventures Of Sonic The Hedgehog.vol1 even though I own Sonic Underground The Complete Series from the UK. If I wanted a set with just all the episodes I would have turned around and sold the Shout SU set. In Sonic Satam, Shout delivered insight on what would have come in the third season as well as extra Dooms Day footage. While SU came with a music CD with Sonic Underground Greatest Hits. This is the close you'd get to a music cd with Sonic Underground songs (unless you downloaded and burn them). My point is Shout actually does a great job of digging up old and new features for old shows that make the sets worth getting (even if the set won't last over one volume). While other companies that put out cartoons on dvd just toss out sketches or maybe an interview with one of the voice actors (which shows no real thought given to the set, unlike Shout whose sets are given much thought).

1/18/2008 9:54 PM

8BitStar

Member since: 1/16/2008

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

[quote]...While other companies that put out cartoons on dvd just toss out sketches or maybe an interview with one of the voice actors...[/quote]

No disrespect intended, but... how can you honestly say that this ISN'T what Shout does? You yourself mention the SatAM set, and this here is basically what it has in terms of "extras." None of their other boxed sets that I've seen are really any different, many are worse.

I respectfully disagree with the notion that its better to have only a quarter of the series but with extras on the disc. Again, I buy these sets first and foremost for the show. I would rather buy a no-frills complete series than a fully-loaded boxed set featuring only a third of the series.

1/19/2008 1:08 PM

The Snappy Sneezer
View Profile: The Snappy Sneezer

Member since: 2/14/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion
While I would prefer the deluxe treatment for the rest of Cops, a barebones over crowded selection would be better than nothing but then again, for Shout doing that could give them a bad reputation.

1/19/2008 8:39 PM

8BitStar

Member since: 1/16/2008

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion
From what I've seen on other animation forums, Shout ALREADY has a bad rep. I think most people would rather have complete sets than extras, and it might help Shout's rep.

1/19/2008 11:41 PM

bammybam
Member since: 9/12/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion
Damn near EVERY company has a bad rep for some reason or another. I know Ward and the guys at Shout care, and they at the very least respond to complaints. Good enough for me.

1/20/2008 10:03 AM

N8 Storm

Member since: 2/22/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

If shows like Defenders of the Earth, Prince Valiant, New Adventures of He-Man, Filmation's Ghostbusters, and other lesser shows can get multi volume complete releases, I don't see why a lot of Shout's releases are incomplete. Whether fair or not, Shout has a bad rap among the internet community because of this. It definitely affects sales when a company gets a reputation for that. People want complete releases, not partial ones. I would think it would be better in the long run to have short term losses in order to build long term, loyal customer bases, than to just give up on so many series before their releases are completed.

1/20/2008 4:35 PM

trustkill01
View Profile: trustkill01

Member since: 4/9/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

I thought i'd throw on my 2 cents as well.....I agree in part with most all of you.....I honestly like the old Shout and what i mean by that is when they first started out and were putting out toons in digipack and whatnot, I have a soft spot for Shout, they have put out some good toons for me, Zelda, COPS, Captain N, but in my opinion they are not perfect neither is any company, yes i do have to agree in my own opinion, the special features that shout has put on many of their releases are pretty thin, things i would only ever watch once really, compared to BCI in the he-man, new adventures of he-man, she-ra, dungeons and dragons, Bravestarr,etc, their special features are definently better by far, their dvd packaging by far is superior to Shouts, the majority of BCI's dvds are in great looking digipacks with amazing artwork, true many of those they did that for were for toons that were in a sense guaranteed to sell well and had a lot stronger fanbase than a lot of the Dic titles Shout has put out. I do agree that i would like to see whole sets released at one time, but thats not going to happen, B ward on here has stated the cost is too high to do that, becuse then they have to jack the price up, and the average person isnt willing to drop that much money at one time on a cartoon, i agree with that and also disagree on that , its depends on the toon and how many episodes your talking about, the He-man line....133 episodes i think it is...yeah i see why it was split up into 4 different vols...same with Thundercats cause those are really long runs, but i have no business sense, i am a marine biologist. For instance my bro told me that the people at BCI didnt sell as many as copies of some she-ra and new adventures of he-man boxets but that they went on and released them for the fans, i think there were very minor changes on some of the later boxset artwork, like the front covers were embossed or "raised up" like the previous ones, but then again i dont know how many sets were sold. But i have never been impressed with the special features put out by Shout, BcI does it up right, but then again i dont know much material is availble for at of these Dic toons

1/20/2008 5:43 PM

The Snappy Sneezer
View Profile: The Snappy Sneezer

Member since: 2/14/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

I honestly believe that BCI intends to release on DVD in some fashion everything they licensed. It seems that they have taken some losses and are learning from mistakes but I am glad they made those mistakes. I do think it would be a waste for Shout not to release what they can of what they already licensed.

In regards to this though, I reckon less DVDs could be made though. So people that want Shout or BCI releases, or any licensed release, or miracle release should probably snap them up when they can. I wish I had bought the UAV animated Swamp Thing and the animated 90s Fantastic 4 and WildCATS, all out of print. Buy Mario, Sonic, Jayce, Blackstar, Captain N, Cops, Carmen, He-Man, Prince Valiant, Heathcliff, anything else like this while they are still around.

1/20/2008 5:51 PM

8BitStar

Member since: 1/16/2008

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

----- Original Post -----
by trustkill01 at 1/20/2008 4:35:28 PM

the majority of BCI's dvds are in great looking digipacks with amazing artwork, true many of those they did that for were for toons that were in a sense guaranteed to sell well and had a lot stronger fanbase than a lot of the Dic titles Shout has put out.
----End quote-----

I don't think that's necessarily true. Outside of He-Man (which itself was really a risk) and maybe Dungeons & Dragons BCI didn't and doesn't really have any garunteed best-sellers in their library.

I do not buy the excuse that doing complete series would jack the prices up--maybe in Shout's case it would since their releases seem to be more expensive overall anyway (compare the Complete Blackstar--13 episodes for $14.99--to the Complete Legend of Zelda--13 episodes for $24.99). But I'm sure Shout could, if they put their minds to it, think of a way to release COPS or Carmen in the altogether for no more than $50 tops. Also nobody is asking Shout to give this treatment to an absurdly long 130 episode series--which, none of DICs shows ever met that number.

1/20/2008 7:23 PM

trustkill01
View Profile: trustkill01

Member since: 4/9/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

BCI has only put a couple different toons on slim casing or other non digipack packaging, in other words they put the money into the toons that were going to sell, and gave it the best most elaborate packaging...Ghostbusters(filmation), blackstar, prince valiant those werent nearly as popular.....but He-man??? Come on man, He-man was one of the biggest cartoons of the 80's, its like GI Joe everyone knows what it is, you have your opinion and i respect it, but He-man was pretty much in the bag for BCI, she-ra and New Adventures were not as big.

----- Original Post -----
by 8BitStar at 1/20/2008 5:51:03 PM

----- Original Post -----
by trustkill01 at 1/20/2008 4:35:28 PM

the majority of BCI's dvds are in great looking digipacks with amazing artwork, true many of those they did that for were for toons that were in a sense guaranteed to sell well and had a lot stronger fanbase than a lot of the Dic titles Shout has put out.
----End quote-----

I don't think that's necessarily true. Outside of He-Man (which itself was really a risk) and maybe Dungeons & Dragons BCI didn't and doesn't really have any garunteed best-sellers in their library.

I do not buy the excuse that doing complete series would jack the prices up--maybe in Shout's case it would since their releases seem to be more expensive overall anyway (compare the Complete Blackstar--13 episodes for $14.99--to the Complete Legend of Zelda--13 episodes for $24.99). But I'm sure Shout could, if they put their minds to it, think of a way to release COPS or Carmen in the altogether for no more than $50 tops. Also nobody is asking Shout to give this treatment to an absurdly long 130 episode series--which, none of DICs shows ever met that number.

1/20/2008 9:04 PM

8BitStar

Member since: 1/16/2008

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

----- Original Post -----
by trustkill01 at 1/20/2008 7:23:32 PM

What does "my opinion" have to do with anything? In my opinion the entire He-Man canon are some of the greatest works of animation ever to grace the screen.

I'm not calling them a "risk" because of subjective feelings, I'm calling them so because that's what they in fact were and are. Filmation's shows (unlike DIC's) were kept pretty much off the air for over a decade. People forget, and of course there was little hope of these shows reaching new fans.

Being an eighties icon is NO GARUNTEE for big sales. Mattel tried to do a He-Man revival with a new cartoon and toyline in 2002, and it bombed. Furthermore, G.I. Joe, Jem, She-Ra, Heathcliff, and Inspector Gadget were all eighties icons as well and their DVD releases all tanked in sales.

You don't have to take my word for it. BCI Guy over at He-Man.org actually works in BCI's marketing department and he's got access to sales figures and has talked a little bit about the workings of the industry over there. Go search through his posts--he's worth a read.

But this topic is getting a little far afield of the original plea, which is still that Shout should consider going the "Complete Series" route, at least for the DIC library.

1/21/2008 5:57 AM

petepetepete
View Profile: petepetepete

Member since: 11/30/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

i disagree really, he-man was the biggest cartoon where i live in britain and was massive across the world. Plus it was highly marketed when it came out, the toys are collectors items now! Plus filmnation outside of the USA was much much bigger thing than dic, espically on english and french tv.

Most cartoon dvd's from the past do poorly unless there a cult tv show like the thundercats or dangermouse, because first alot of people are feel too old to watch cartoons who where kids when they came out, some people dont know about them bein too young too see them.

Cartoon dvd's dont sell that well anyways unless they are like a disney cartoon or looney toons thing which everyone knows and likes from bein young or old or a big marketed cartoon like turtles which probably would sell well.

Jayce and the wheeled warriors did poorly in it french release(the series has been fully released there, same with pole postion), it because it's a very small market it aimed at and when it not bein greatly advertised the majority of the time it will struggle.

Jayce is a huge risk, 1st it hasnt been on television for years, 2nd it wasnt a great success when it was on tv, it marketing and toyline failed very badly like alot of DIC productions. So really the dvd is only appealin to a select audience which is hard to judge how many will sell and more than likely it will struggle.

Im a fan of jayce and i will have to get it imported to where i live but i have doubts about the 2nd volume bein released.

1/21/2008 9:28 AM

trustkill01
View Profile: trustkill01

Member since: 4/9/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

I simply meant that out of all the toons made in the last 27 years or so, he-man in my opinion was one of the very least likely to ever bomb in dvd sales, it was worldwide, had a large toyline just like most 80's toons larger ones at least, and in the last 7-8 years has had a lot of memoriablia and collectors items demand by fans on places like ebay,etc, yes any release runs the risk of bombing in sales, my point was that He-man in my opinion was a small risk in view of its following. Yes i agree with you i wish they would release the whole collections at one time, but in all honesty who does that? Even tv shows sitcoms, etc, are all released in seasons, and then sometimes after they're all released they go back and release a complete collection.

1/21/2008 3:46 PM

The Snappy Sneezer
View Profile: The Snappy Sneezer

Member since: 2/14/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

This was such a great thing that you all embraced these shows because from what I understand the original masters were destroyed by the very evil people at Hallmark that did plan to do the same thing to Laurel & Hardy and the Little Rascals until UCLA stepped in. Entertainment Rights, what bought the Filmation material, is a UK company, they have managed to salvage an important part of our culture and for that I am eternally thankful.

I agree Jayce might be risky but not as risky as Cops. I do remember people loving Jayce and dissing Cops but everything is different everywhere and maybe my age range at the time had something to do with it but those kids were still watching other cartoons as well. I never "grew" out of cartoons and a lot of people feel that way but many are sadly ashamed to admit it. I still see on some websites when people ask what unreleased show do you want on DVD, many say Cops, there are people that do not know this exists and they may want it but they are not going to seek it out, it has to find them.

I wonder how well the Littles sold, that show still comes on TV in syndication.

I do think the British do cult better, they seem devout to their obsessions, I wish the US fans were more like that.

Do you ever advertise in comic books? I know that business is suffering too but I think many comic fans would love Jayce.

----- Original Post -----
by petepetepete at 1/21/2008 5:57:51 AM

1/21/2008 3:48 PM

The Snappy Sneezer
View Profile: The Snappy Sneezer

Member since: 2/14/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

The Man from U.N.C.L.E. and Get Smart were released as complete series first and they are some of the best examples of how TV on DVD should handle. Exclusive to Time-Life right now though.

----- Original Post -----
by trustkill01 at 1/21/2008 9:28:12 AM

I simply meant that out of all the toons made in the last 27 years or so, he-man in my opinion was one of the very least likely to ever bomb in dvd sales, it was worldwide, had a large toyline just like most 80's toons larger ones at least, and in the last 7-8 years has had a lot of memoriablia and collectors items demand by fans on places like ebay,etc, yes any release runs the risk of bombing in sales, my point was that He-man in my opinion was a small risk in view of its following. Yes i agree with you i wish they would release the whole collections at one time, but in all honesty who does that? Even tv shows sitcoms, etc, are all released in seasons, and then sometimes after they're all released they go back and release a complete collection.

1/24/2008 10:03 PM

8BitStar

Member since: 1/16/2008

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

If Shout isn't going to do a complete series, I just thought of another option.

How about a "The rest of the flippin' show" set for the non-sellers?

Like... there's only 44 episodes of COPS left to go. Why not put all forty-four of them, with NO special features and with the most inexpensive packaging Shout could possibly come up with (heck, I'd even buy them in paper sleeves!), in a "Volume 2" set and just let it be that?

1/25/2008 3:18 AM

glexter

Member since: 4/2/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion
Actually, I also suggested that maybe Shout could produce 3000 units of a second volume of Cops or AoSTH and sell them exclusively on their website. Once they are sold out, they are sold out. Varese Sarabande does that with rare movie scores that are part of the "club releases". Heck maybe even 1000 units, unless it wouldn't be cost efficient to produce such low numbers.

1/25/2008 6:31 AM

trustkill01
View Profile: trustkill01

Member since: 4/9/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion
my brother who majored in international buisness and marketing in college has told me in the past that it is cheaper to produce in higher bulk than it is to make a smaller batch, and i think in the past Ward has verified this.

1/26/2008 11:02 PM

Netbug009

Member since: 12/25/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

While i personally enjoy Shout Factory and feel they are doing something awesome, I do agree that they could advertise more. Right now shout factory is on the corners of the internet. Some of their shows used to be really popular, and with more ads they could have some crazy sales.

I think thought, Shout Factory is trying the best they can to do as much of a series as possible, but also needs to be prepared in case if bombs. And unfortunatly, some series are just too long to stick onto one set and have a price reasonable to not just a cartoon collector, but also the average consumer. For example, I am a consumer of the Medabots seasons Shout puts out. If I am correct, they have already grabbed season 2 and are planning to release that as well. I would love to see then do the new saga that came after that, season 3, but first they have to see that they are doing well with it. From what I have seen, they try to avoid stopping released on cliffhangers though, and sometimes they do indeed do somplete series for bigger things, like Oban Star Racers.

Like I said, Shout has to not only make animation junkies happy, but also the average consumer. Normal consumers like special features, resonable prises, and cool menus and the like.

1/28/2008 12:09 AM

8BitStar

Member since: 1/16/2008

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

---QUOTE---
While i personally enjoy Shout Factory and feel they are doing something awesome, I do agree that they could advertise more. Right now shout factory is on the corners of the internet. Some of their shows used to be really popular, and with more ads they could have some crazy sales.
---END QUOTE---

I agree. They should at least get ads up on IMDb or some fandom pages. Or if they need something low cost, then Brian Ward or somebody could hunt down COPS etc. forums and post there personally. BCI has guys who get involved with the fanbases they're trying to sell shows to and apparently it works for them, so it could work for Shout too.

---QUOTE---
I think thought, Shout Factory is trying the best they can to do as much of a series as possible, but also needs to be prepared in case if bombs. And unfortunatly, some series are just too long to stick onto one set and have a price reasonable to not just a cartoon collector, but also the average consumer.
---END QUOTE---

You know, I'm not quite sure how DVD pricing works.

Yesterday I went to Hastings and bought Rocky and Bullwinkle, the Complete Second Season. It was only $30 (new), for 52 complete episodes (and by "complete" I mean a full thirty minutes, including the Peabody and Sherman, Dudley Do-Right etc. segments). And it had special features too. And I do not understand how I'm playing $30 for 52 episodes when most cartoon sets ask me to pay about as much for only 20-30 episodes (and now I'm not just criticizing Shout but practically everyone). Call me greedy but I think that if one company can do it, everyone can.

1/28/2008 6:20 AM

trustkill01
View Profile: trustkill01

Member since: 4/9/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

I do know that what the retail stores, online stores,etc sell the dvd sets for is.....well let me put it this way, Shout for instance sells the copies to the retailers for a price, thats when they make their money, the retail store in turn sells it for an obvious higher price to make a profit, how much that is i would guess is based on how much the retailer bought it for, and/or how much many copies they expect to sell. I have always wondered this myself, in Best Buy for instance the avearge Shout release is $25-30 for a 4-disc, twenty-some episode dvd set, while a BCI release such as He-man, a vol set with 6-disc 33 episode set and amazing looking box and digi-pack, costs $25-30 in the same store. I dont know what is up with retail stores.

----- Original Post -----
by 8BitStar at 1/28/2008 12:09:31 AM

---QUOTE---
While i personally enjoy Shout Factory and feel they are doing something awesome, I do agree that they could advertise more. Right now shout factory is on the corners of the internet. Some of their shows used to be really popular, and with more ads they could have some crazy sales.
---END QUOTE---

I agree. They should at least get ads up on IMDb or some fandom pages. Or if they need something low cost, then Brian Ward or somebody could hunt down COPS etc. forums and post there personally. BCI has guys who get involved with the fanbases they're trying to sell shows to and apparently it works for them, so it could work for Shout too.

---QUOTE---
I think thought, Shout Factory is trying the best they can to do as much of a series as possible, but also needs to be prepared in case if bombs. And unfortunatly, some series are just too long to stick onto one set and have a price reasonable to not just a cartoon collector, but also the average consumer.
---END QUOTE---

You know, I'm not quite sure how DVD pricing works.

Yesterday I went to Hastings and bought Rocky and Bullwinkle, the Complete Second Season. It was only $30 (new), for 52 complete episodes (and by "complete" I mean a full thirty minutes, including the Peabody and Sherman, Dudley Do-Right etc. segments). And it had special features too. And I do not understand how I'm playing $30 for 52 episodes when most cartoon sets ask me to pay about as much for only 20-30 episodes (and now I'm not just criticizing Shout but practically everyone). Call me greedy but I think that if one company can do it, everyone can.

1/29/2008 8:36 AM

Bludgeon

Member since: 1/28/2008

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

Its enough to know at some point in time that Shout!Factory may actually get that one show someone wants(Exo Squad) but have faith that one disc might eventually have Silver Surfer on it(Im not holding my breath cause the show blew chunks) as well as hoping for X-Men Animated one day. Avengers could happen but Im not counting on it. Theres just to many Toons that we wont see and thank goodness we wont cause who wants or even remembers Clutch Cargo or Rocket Robin Hood. (Given that RRH might see a release eventually) But come on. I just bought Defenders of the Earth Vol 1 for only 6 dollars at Ross. I never even saw it at Best Buy. Fish Police?!? Dont count on that one either but Mad Jack the Pirate. Shout might be in negotiations already but just give them time.

1/29/2008 1:25 PM

B Ward

Member since: 1/12/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

Who'da thought that one of the more popular threads on the Shout! Factory forum would be the "Shout! sucks/No, they don't" thread?!

Look, guys... Here's MY opinion of some of the things I've seen here...

He-Man and the Masters of the Universe could not have, in any way, been a more sure-fire hit for BCI and I'm convinced that title alone has helped them counterbalance the titles that have not sold well. But they knew it would be big when they went for it. There was never (or, at least, shouldn't have been) any doubt. So was He-Man a risk? Absolutely not. Was He-Man worth the cost of acquiring the rest of Filmation's lackluster catalog? Only BCI can say for sure, but I'd say it was.

By the way, with the exception of the fine crew over at BCI, smaller DVD labels like ourselves have gone out of business in very short amounts of time for doing the kinds of things many of you are suggesting. I love the fans. I am one. So I, too, want things to be complete and these are arguments I've had with the powers-that-be over and over again. But I know the amount of money it takes to create a DVD before and after actual manufacturing costs and I am telling you, in all honesty, that Shout! Factory has been wise to avoid making broad commitments to complete series too soon. By not doing so, I understand that some people won't buy the first volumes. Okay, that's your decision. But if you were wise enough to buy it and all of those other people who refused to buy it until they heard about a second or third volume bought it when it came out, we'd have completed C.O.P.S. and Where On Earth Is Carmen Sandiego? by now. Plain and simple.

Sales lead to completion.

So, instead of complaining that your favorite series haven't been completed or marketed well, try going out and picking up a copy. And if you have one, go onto those sites that I've missed and talk them up. It's called "word-of-mouth" and it works. I saw it happen very successfully with Sonic The Hedgehog. When the fans get behind the set, it sells. And the eyes of the powers-that-be light up with enthusiasm. And the next volume is released. And the next. And before you know it, you have the complete series sitting on your shelves.

We need your help. So, instead of telling us how much you hate us, why don't you try helping us? It'll only help yourselves.

Brian

"Know Thyself" --Thales

1/29/2008 4:26 PM

trustkill01
View Profile: trustkill01

Member since: 4/9/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

I am stating my opinion in a completely neutral tone......in my opinion the Filmation catalog that BCI acquired is by far more solid that the Dic catalog, with the exception of COPS and Zelda.....and even though they dont own the rights they helped make MASK and the real ghostbusters and the Dic GI Joe series......but those aside i think Filmations catalog was by far superior to Dic's especially superior to Dic's 90's toons.

1/30/2008 3:21 PM

8BitStar

Member since: 1/16/2008

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

B Ward, that's unfair.

I dunno what others who've posted have been trying to say, but my posts was not ever about "hating" Shout. Sure, I mentioned you guys have something of a bad rap, but that's just a simple fact, like "grass is green" or "the sky is blue" or "Carmen Sandiego is located in Cairo, Egypt."

I'm backing the releases, and I'm tryin to convince everyone I know to buy COPS and Carmen and any other show you may have that I'm serious about (I'm about on the verge of using golf clubs and magnums to make my arguement a little more persuasive). My whole reason for coming here was to pitch other possible types of releases, using examples that other companies have done, and seen if I could get someone at Shout interested in taking similar approaches or, if not, hearing a reason from the experts why not.

1/31/2008 8:25 AM

The Snappy Sneezer
View Profile: The Snappy Sneezer

Member since: 2/14/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

Clutch Cargo is on DVD in its entirety from BCI. Rocket Robin Hood seems to be coming to DVD from Canada but there was some sort of holdup.

----- Original Post -----
by Bludgeon at 1/29/2008 8:36:28 AM

Its enough to know at some point in time that Shout!Factory may actually get that one show someone wants(Exo Squad) but have faith that one disc might eventually have Silver Surfer on it(Im not holding my breath cause the show blew chunks) as well as hoping for X-Men Animated one day. Avengers could happen but Im not counting on it. Theres just to many Toons that we wont see and thank goodness we wont cause who wants or even remembers Clutch Cargo or Rocket Robin Hood. (Given that RRH might see a release eventually) But come on. I just bought Defenders of the Earth Vol 1 for only 6 dollars at Ross. I never even saw it at Best Buy. Fish Police?!? Dont count on that one either but Mad Jack the Pirate. Shout might be in negotiations already but just give them time.
About Rocky & Bullwinkle, 1 and 3 had half that amount. 2 is doubler sided, I kind of would have preferred it to have been divided up for single sided discs. Regardless, the final part of this show is still not on DVD and is feared to have been abandoned. Still, the price you found is about what you could find it for when it was first released but I have seen it for cheaper than that.

----- Original Post -----
by 8BitStar at 1/28/2008 12:09:31 AM

Yesterday I went to Hastings and bought Rocky and Bullwinkle, the Complete Second Season. It was only $30 (new), for 52 complete episodes (and by "complete" I mean a full thirty minutes, including the Peabody and Sherman, Dudley Do-Right etc. segments). And it had special features too. And I do not understand how I'm playing $30 for 52 episodes when most cartoon sets ask me to pay about as much for only 20-30 episodes (and now I'm not just criticizing Shout but practically everyone). Call me greedy but I think that if one company can do it, everyone can.

I am trying to think of something wildly popular as He-Man left for Shout to release but I am hard pressed to do so aside from a miracle arrangement for the Marvel series which would guarantee good sales.

1/31/2008 5:12 PM

meredith65
View Profile: meredith65

Member since: 9/9/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

Hi Brian, I do agree that Shout needs to take some chances. Earlier today (January 31), Koch has announced the first half (32/65 episodes) of "Adventures of the Galaxy Rangers": The Collection, Volume 1 on DVD (due out on May 13, 2008). Volume 2 (the remaining 33 episodes) is slated for release in 3rd QTR of this year. I LOVED this 'toon!! This is starting to sound like a trend, though: Shout doing "Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors" Vol. 1 (Eps 1 - 33), with Vol. 2 (Eps 34 - 65) being prepped for later this year........Filmation's Ghostbusters Vol. 1 and Vol. 2 (all 65 Eps) already out..........and BraveStarr Vol. 1 (first half of 65 episode series) already out with BraveStarr Vol. 2 (second half of 65 episode series) due sometime this spring. Definitely something to ponder........... Meredith65

2/1/2008 9:39 AM

glexter

Member since: 4/2/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

I never heard of the Cops Cartoon show before coming to these forums. However, considering the fan base and since now is a dry time for DVD movies, I decided to purchase a copy and see what all the who ha is about. "One more for sales".

When Shout announced that there were troubles in bring Super Mario World to DVD, I went out and purchased the Aussie Region 4 Gift set so I would have the complete Mario collection. Then all legal issues were worked and Shout released their Super Mario World gift set....and I purchased that too.

I will do the same thing with AoSTH as well. I really don't want to take the chance that the UK release of AoSTH could go out of print before Shout ever decides if they want to continue this series. Fate would have it that after I do make this purchase, then the announcement follows that future volumes will be coming.....but you know what, ill buy the Shout versions then TOO. And retire all foreign region releases.

So, not sure if this is a complaint or a compliment, and while I don't consider myself a hardcore 80's/90's cartoon fan, I do have my favorites and I want them on DVD. I gladly give this company my business.

2/1/2008 10:36 AM

B Ward

Member since: 1/12/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion
Hope you enjoyed C.O.P.S., Glexter. I can also say that you can look for volume two of Adventures of Sonic The Hedgehog sometime toward the middle of this year. No official date is set, yet, but it is on our radar of things to start working on soon. Brian "Know Thyself" --Thales

2/1/2008 2:13 PM

milesdx

Member since: 2/10/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

I also did some thing similar. I had bought a copy of Sonic Underground from the Uk years ago. Last year when Brian announced Sonic Underground Vol 1 I immediately pre-ordered a copy. I think Shout gives more than any other company would (ex. the Sonic Underground Greatest hits. Which I doubt that if another company would have made this set would have given us this and other features found o this and other sets). Even though the final volume is now confirmed I am still going to hang onto my UK set for someone who might enjoy this series (as an introductory set).

After AOSTH volume 1 came out I (like many others) thought the final two volumes doomed. So I ordered the UK complete series set. Now that the final two volumes are confirmed I am still going to hang onto the UK set (for the same reason as the UK SU set) and pr-order the next two volumes. I repeat what I said before, that Shout gives us more than any other company would. In another post Brian stated a upcoming bonus "How To Draw Robotnik".

I'm getting these sets to show how much of a devoted Sonic fan as well as a fan of these cartoons that Brian and Shout has been so kindly to bring back to us. And I think so far they are doing an excellent job.

----- Original Post -----
by glexter at 2/1/2008 9:39:36 AM

2/1/2008 4:00 PM

trustkill01
View Profile: trustkill01

Member since: 4/9/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

This isnt directed toward Brian, anyone at Shout, or any of you AoSTH fans, this is just my opinion, but hearing that AoSTH is getting a vol 2 blows my mind, because that really is a terrible toon, I just sincerely hope that COPS will one day see the rest of it released by Shout, cause in my opinion if a toon like AoSTH can have a vol 2 released, theres no reason why COPS couldnt sell enough somehow.

2/1/2008 4:43 PM

Jonny Modlin
View Profile: Jonny Modlin

Member since: 2/16/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

B Ward,

I am very excited that Adventures of Sonic The Hedgehog Volume 2 is getting released on DVD that I will get! What episodes will be in Adventures of Sonic The Hedgehog Volume 2 along with special features? When will Adventures of Sonic The Hedgehog Volume 3 be released on DVD that I will get to complete the entire collection of Adventures of Sonic The Hedgehog on DVD? Please put the remaining 44 episodes in Adventures of Sonic The Hedgehog Volume 2 along with special features of How to Draw Dr. Robotnik and How to Draw Miles "Tails" Prower with other special features. Thank you.

Jonny

2/2/2008 5:34 AM

Elric

Member since: 2/2/2008

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

I've often thought it would be cool if Shout could license old school Power Rangers from Disney (since Disney won't put it out themselves), but reading through this thread I wonder wonder what kind of releases Shout would make (season sets, volumes, or what?) Or what kind of extras they would include? Lots of cool stuff for fans like BCI put on the He-Man discs (which I don't see BCI doing much of anymore, after they do the remake of He-Man this coming year), or would Shout make the extras like the stuff they put on Sonic The Hedgehog? Just like BCI went to He-Man.com get fans helping in the making of extras, a classic Power Rangers release should include the fans at all the fan sites like Power Ranger Central.

Hey, now that's really a intersting way to put the question. If Shout! put out Mighty Morphen Power Ranger DVDs, what do you think they would look like? On the other hand, what would the same show look like if it came from BCI (He-Man guys)? Media Blasters (Voltron guys)? A&E (Weird Sience/Space 1999)? Image (Peewee Hermann)? Any other studio? Would Shout really be the best company to put out a big show like Power Rangers? No offense, Brian, just curious what everyone thinks!

By the way, BCI didn't get the rest of the Filmation titles until after He-Man was a hit. When He-Man started selling well, they went after She-Ra and somehow ended up with the whole lot (except for Star Trek and other Filmation-made shows owned at other places).

2/2/2008 7:05 PM

Jonny Modlin
View Profile: Jonny Modlin

Member since: 2/16/2007

Attn: Brian Ward

Can you please include 44 episodes of Adventures of Sonic The Hedgehog Volume 2 along with more special features? When will Adventures of Sonic The Hedgehog Volumes 2 and 3 be released on DVD, so that I can complete the entire collection of Adventures of Sonic The Hedgehog on DVD and did the first volume of Adventures of Sonic The Hedgehog sell well on DVD? When will Sonic Underground Volume 2 be released, so that I can complete the entire collection of SonicUnderground on DVD along with the 1990's Sonic The Hedgehog cartoon series collection?

Can you please include 44 episodes in AOSTH Volume 2 on DVD of Grounder the Genius, Tails in Charge, Sno Problem, Submerged Sonic, Boogey-Mania, Musta Been a Beautiful Baby, Robotnik Junior, Full-Tilt Tails, Mac Hopper, Momma Robotnik Returns, Spaceman Sonic, Mad Mike, Da Bear Warrior, The Last Resort, Robotnik's Rival, The Magic Hassle, Sonic the Matchmaker, Tails Prevails, Zoobotnik, Attack on the Pinball Fortress, Mass Transit Trouble, Coachnik, Untouchable Sonic, Super Robotnik, Robolympics, Magnificent Sonic, Blackbot the Pirate, Hedgehog of the Hound Table, Robotnik's Pyramid Scheme, Prehistoric Sonic, Baby-Sitter Jitters, Honey, I Shrunk the Hedgehog, Robotnikland, The Mobius 5000, The Little Merhog, Road Hog, The Robot's Robot, Tails' Tale, Hero of the Year, Fast and Easy, Lifestyles of the Sick and Twisted, Sonic is Running, Robo-Ninjas, Sonically Ever After, Sonic's Christmas Blast along with special features of Interview with Kent Butterworth, How to Draw Dr. Robotnik and Tails. Thank you.

Jonny

2/3/2008 3:58 AM

8BitStar

Member since: 1/16/2008

RE: Attn: Brian Ward

Jonny Modlin:

I want to ask, is English your first language? A few language tips:
A. You don't have to keep repeating the name of the show. That's what pronouns are for.
B. You didn't have to list the remaining episodes. I'm sure Shout knows which ones they haven't put out yet.
C. Try to keep questions simple. Instead of "Will you please put 44 episodes of Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog on Volumes 2 and 3?" You could've just said "Are you going to release the rest of Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog?"
D. Always check the existing topics to see if an answer already exists.

Secondly... please, do you know what "Spam" is? Because don't take this the wrong way, but posting the exact same message five times in five different topics is what I'd call spam. It's great that you want the rest of Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog to come out. I do too. But saying so over and over and over with the same barely-cohensible message isn't gonna garuntee it.

2/3/2008 6:27 AM

Jonny Modlin
View Profile: Jonny Modlin

Member since: 2/16/2007

RE: Adventures of Sonic The Hedgehog Volumes 2 and 3

B Ward,

Are you going to release the rest of Adventures of Sonic The Hedgehog Volumes 2 and 3 on DVD that I will get to complete the entire collection of Adventures of Sonic The Hedgehog? Thank you.

Jonny

2/12/2008 5:48 PM

B Ward

Member since: 1/12/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

In honesty, Elric, I went to the fans for Sonic The Hedgehog: The Complete Series. It's always been my intention to go straight to the fans for their opinions. You may still be able to find my EXTENSIVE interaction with them at several sites. Same goes for Captain N: The Game Master. I'm glad BCI's sets are hits. I know folks over there. But they don't have the market cornered on going straight to the fans.

Brian

"Know Thyself" --Thales

2/13/2008 8:30 AM

PC2

Member since: 2/10/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion
Wow, how could I miss this? That's awesome that we're getting a second volume of AoStH, Brian. I know the sales weren't what you were hoping for a while back. Did the AoStH/SMB3 release help make up for it? Whatever the case, can't wait!

2/24/2008 6:15 AM

trustkill01
View Profile: trustkill01

Member since: 4/9/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

"Furthermore, G.I. Joe, Jem, She-Ra, Heathcliff, and Inspector Gadget were all eighties icons as well and their DVD releases all tanked in sales."

Yeah well read this just posted on tvshowsondvd.com, Rhino wasnt able to release the last vol of GI Joe because they lost the rights to Sony Wonder.

http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/GI-Joe-Hasbro-Toy-Battle-Packs/9052

----- Original Post -----
by 8BitStar at 1/20/2008 9:04:05 PM

What does "my opinion" have to do with anything? In my opinion the entire He-Man canon are some of the greatest works of animation ever to grace the screen.

3/12/2008 3:17 PM

glexter

Member since: 4/2/2007

RE: an ignorant ramble/suggestion

Thank you everyone for the C.O.P.S suggestion. Since it is (or was) a dry time for DVD releases, I thought I would watch a C.O.P.S episode every night for 22 nights. The series initially did not grab me as interesting and came off as just a "nice" 80s cartoon. However I really did enjoy the 2 part "Case One" which introduced all the characters. Another thing I liked was that only selected COPS from time to time would appear during the episode. And also at times COPS would buddy up with other COPS not seen paired before in previous episodes. The jazzy music used on the DVD menus were especially catchy but the biggest annoyance of all was that there were no chapter points, but that was minor. Anyway, hope my purchased helped and I would definately get future volumes if they were released, but sonic is still my obsession.