| 6/20/2007 10:03 AM |
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Anthony
 Member since: 6/20/2007 | | I'm suing Shout! Factory for not having a Closed Captions for Mario Bros TV series | Yes, that's right. I'm deaf. I recently bought Volume 1 and it has no Closed Captions! I cannot understand what were they saying in the show! Seriously. They should have put C.C. on DVD!
I want to know why they didn't put english subtitles/Closed Captions!
I'm extreme pissed at SHOUT! Factory. |
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| 6/20/2007 6:03 PM |
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xChri5x
 Member since: 6/11/2007 | | RE: I'm suing Shout! Factory for not having a Closed Captions for Mario Bros TV series | Your life is over.
Try for the 7 million mark! That'll cover pain and suffering! |
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| 6/21/2007 11:43 AM |
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Brettfern
 Member since: 4/8/2007 | | RE: I'm suing Shout! Factory for not having a Closed Captions for Mario Bros TV series | My friend is hearing-impaired.. I wouldn't reccomend her buying any of Shout! Factory's DVD releases.
I would definitely for like Disney, Warner Bros. or Fox since they always have the subtitles (optional only on your DVD remote).
Distributors like Universal, Anchor Bay, Sony or Lions Gate usually have the regular CC captioning (with your regular TV remote). I wonder if S'More does the same thing that you do. I guesss I'll find out October 16 when I get The Littles - The Complete Series. |
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| 6/21/2007 10:20 PM |
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blueluigi
 Member since: 2/8/2007 | | RE: I'm suing Shout! Factory for not having a Closed Captions for Mario Bros TV series | | The reason why the Shout Factory DVDs wasn't closed captioned is because they are not permitted to use closed caption on their DVDs wheather or not the show aired on TV closed captioned or not (I don't think SMBSS did). I, personally, would have liked to see the show closed captioned, although I'm not hearing impared, I still would have liked to see it. |
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| 7/27/2007 4:32 PM |
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gb_supernova
 Member since: 7/27/2007 | | RE: I'm suing Shout! Factory for not having a Closed Captions for Mario Bros TV series | | I think I have seen Brian say in the past that it wasn't within SF's budget to include subtitles or captions. |
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| 8/31/2007 4:34 PM |
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geoffc86
 Member since: 8/31/2007 | | RE: I'm suing Shout! Factory for not having a Closed Captions for Mario Bros TV series | | I agree with you that it is not fair to the hearing-impaired, but you probably should have been able to tell up-front that it didn't, so a lawsuit wouldn't make a lot of sense. |
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| 9/21/2010 11:53 AM |
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jason98684
 Member since: 9/21/2010 | | RE: I'm suing Shout! Factory for not having a Closed Captions for Mario Bros TV series | I know i am responding to an 3 year old post, but I am also an hard of hearing customer UPSET with shout factory, they have no idea how much business they are losing by leaving the hearing impaired / deaf / hearing customers out without captions.
closed captioning is very benefical to those who want to understand the dialogue 100%, & also great for hearing kids who watch captions with tv, their reading level is increased alot.
as for suing them, I was once thinking I wanted to, when i brought super mario bros and found out it had no captions, but i figured by now they would of done it, no... this year they released my favorite tv show "Ghostwriters". AND THEY DIDNT PUT CAPTIONS ON IT EITHER!!!!!!
I googled shout factory closed captions and theres so many complaints unsolved.
Now im pissed to the point where I am thinking, "so people have threat to sue, but havent done anything". Yet shout factory has ignored customer's wishes, now I am wondering... hmmm... I wonder if the deaf people actully have an case? (hello shout factory, I suggest asking your lawyer "are they right?")
If nobody has sued you by now, its because they were nice enough to give you time to prepare & start captioning like the rest of people are doing, but after all these years of obviously ignoring the customers, maybe we the people just need to start taking action in order to get shout factorys' attention? I really would like to work together instead of against. The (hearing impaired) people are clearly upset here. (especially me) SO WOULD YOU PLEASE GET WITH THE TIMES ALREADY!!!!
(after this post i am going to research ADA & closed caption laws, hope I can find something to say "hey! your not followin the law"
Wikipedia estimates that, worldwide, 1 in 1000 people are deaf. Why would Shout Factory want to leave out 5 million to 40 million potential deaf customers?
Shout Factory is clearly on their way to sucess, bringing back the past on dvd's is a wonderful thing... but leaving the deaf/hoh customers on purpose is an direct insult to us (, I encourage you to stop putting it off before deaf people start protesting, If you truly care about us (the deaf customers) you will add captions on all of your dvd's (yes i know it might be costly, but theres always an way)
(for the staff at shout factory who dont show respect to us, how would you feel if an old favorite memory of yours came back on dvd, except everything was stuck on mute, and you could not hear why they were laughing, could not understand why people were doing the things they do, or if you need another clear example "what if the dvd was stuck on spanish audio, how would you understand the tv show (unless u spoke spanish...)
The point is, its awesome that you all are bringing memories back to the public, but for those who are given ADA rights, we deserve to enjoy the memories as well. |
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| 9/21/2010 12:19 PM |
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B Ward
 Member since: 1/12/2007 | | RE: I'm suing Shout! Factory for not having a Closed Captions for Mario Bros TV series | I sympathize. Believe me, I do. I would absolutely CC every release blindly, as I do think there's a large number of people that miss out on quality titles due to the fact that they're not closed-captioned.
The problem with "the case" is that we're not breaking any laws. The FCC must provide closed-captioning for the hearing impaired, but only for broadcast. Studios are not required by law to do so. And if we were, we'd be out of business almost immediately. Closed captioning is insanely expensive. For longer seasons of shows, it can cost anywhere between $5,000-$10,000. In some cases, like Super Mario Bros. Super Show!, my budget AFTER authoring was probably somewhere around $2,000. It's just not possible.
And no one really seems all that interested in donating the captioning costs. We've actively sought folks willing to pay for it, in exchange for "advertising," but no one has bitten. When Goodyear Tires sponsors closed captioning on a TV show, they only do so for the broadcast of the episode. And they do it because they get featured ad time.
For those saying that the captioning file exists, so we should simply use what was run with the broadcasts, unfortunately, you're wrong. The two file formats are incompatible. I cannot put a broadcast CC file on a DVD and expect it to work. So I have to get it reformatted, which is cheaper than having the file created by scratch, but not by much.
And here's the kicker... The unfortunate truth is that we know how many people bought the sets. What we don't know is how many people DIDN'T buy the sets. For any reason. Maybe they picked it up and didn't like it. Maybe they didn't like the imagery on the box. Maybe they didn't like the way the back-of-box copy was written. Maybe they thought it was one show instead of the other. Maybe they were deaf and didn't see the CC symbol on the packaging. There are no solid numbers or data that definitively says how many sales were lost due to the lack of closed captioning. Because even if it was closed captioned, it doesn't mean the hard of hearing would automatically purchase it.
We're trying. Hard. We think most--if not all--of our sets should be CCed. And we're making all the moves to get as many of them CCed as possible. But until we're provided with the funds used to cover the cost of closed captioning, we just can't make those promises, especially on titles we don't expect to sell thousands upon thousands of. The money simply isn't there, no matter how many fans complain. It's not a matter of "we have it, but don't wanna spend it." We just don't have it for every title.
Brian
Follow me on Twitter! (@BWard028) |
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| 9/21/2010 12:32 PM |
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MRLOL785
 Member since: 9/6/2010 | | RE: I'm suing Shout! Factory for not having a Closed Captions for Mario Bros TV series | | Personally, I think it's stupid to sue over little things like captions. You didn't ADVERTISE that the sets had CC, and it never aired that way originally ( at least in my area), so there's no valid case. I think the VHS releases from the late 80s were captioned, but those had only 1 or 2 eps at most, and the sponsors ad was at the beginning, but I'd prefer not to think of the freakishly high cost of captioning all 50-60 something episodes. |
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| 10/7/2010 5:14 AM |
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jason98684
 Member since: 9/21/2010 | | RE: I'm suing Shout! Factory for not having a Closed Captions for Mario Bros TV series | Brain, thanks for replying.
2,000 to caption super mario bros, knowing me.. I would put an section in your website, (donate to caption our movies) if wikipedia could get so much $ just to keep their site up, im hoping it would work for shout factory as well... anyway its to my understanding that "max headroom" will be captioned? I applaud that greatly. There are some friends (especially wolfguy) who will definately want to buy the movie.
Yes.. I do realize captioners out there charge SO MUCH %^!@#$ MONEY, i think that part is their fault, not yours..
I encourage you to participate with the deaf/hoh community in expressing how over priced the captioners are, asking the goverment to reduce their overpriced fees,
remember, every little thing counts, if an store like suncoast or walmart (now fye) gets quite an few returns over something like captions, and especially complaints... Do you think walmart or fye would continue to order from the website, or others?
My other idea... (or challenge) "why doesnt someon invent the ability to add captions to an movie on flash, then after the flash project is done, captioning the whole movie online (in return of their long project of adding captions, they all get an dvd? i wonder if that would save alot of money if u had volunteers add captions on flash before remaking it as an dvd. |
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| 10/13/2010 7:35 PM |
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The Snappy Sneezer
 Member since: 2/14/2007 | | RE: I'm suing Shout! Factory for not having a Closed Captions for Mario Bros TV series | I don't know much about the Flash thing but I am certain that I am not alone in being willing to volunteer to create captions for these films and TV shows. I was thinking of possibly getting together with a bunch of computer geeks and coming up with a video player that will read your DVDs, recognize what that DVD is and download a caption file to play alongside that film time matched to each title and chapter. I imagine it would be complicated but what it would relate to is a whole bunch of fans submitting captions to a database for the shows they like for the fans of the shows they like who can not hear them very well or who do not speak the language. This would have to be a huge nonprofit initiative that would probably run into some legal issues but they have those websites that reproduce music lyrics so we should be able to get by, I hope. This all being said, it is still in the dreaming stage.
----- Original Post -----
by jason98684 at 10/7/2010 5:14:35 AM
Brain, thanks for replying.
2,000 to caption super mario bros, knowing me.. I would put an section in your website, (donate to caption our movies) if wikipedia could get so much $ just to keep their site up, im hoping it would work for shout factory as well... anyway its to my understanding that "max headroom" will be captioned? I applaud that greatly. There are some friends (especially wolfguy) who will definately want to buy the movie.
Yes.. I do realize captioners out there charge SO MUCH %^!@#$ MONEY, i think that part is their fault, not yours..
I encourage you to participate with the deaf/hoh community in expressing how over priced the captioners are, asking the goverment to reduce their overpriced fees,
remember, every little thing counts, if an store like suncoast or walmart (now fye) gets quite an few returns over something like captions, and especially complaints... Do you think walmart or fye would continue to order from the website, or others?
My other idea... (or challenge) "why doesnt someon invent the ability to add captions to an movie on flash, then after the flash project is done, captioning the whole movie online (in return of their long project of adding captions, they all get an dvd? i wonder if that would save alot of money if u had volunteers add captions on flash before remaking it as an dvd.
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| 10/13/2010 10:13 PM |
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StarTrooper
 Member since: 6/2/2009 | | RE: I'm suing Shout! Factory for not having a Closed Captions for Mario Bros TV series | There are already databases for subtitles online. One of the largest is www.opensubtitles.org
----- Original Post -----
by The Snappy Sneezer at 10/13/2010 7:35:05 PM
I was thinking of possibly getting together with a bunch of computer geeks and coming up with a video player that will read your DVDs, recognize what that DVD is and download a caption file to play alongside that film time matched to each title and chapter. I imagine it would be complicated but what it would relate to is a whole bunch of fans submitting captions to a database for the shows they like for the fans of the shows they like who can not hear them very well or who do not speak the language. |
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| 10/14/2010 10:15 AM |
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The Snappy Sneezer
 Member since: 2/14/2007 | | RE: I'm suing Shout! Factory for not having a Closed Captions for Mario Bros TV series | | Well then, we should make some for these programs and alert our fellow fans of such a program. |
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| 10/15/2010 9:18 AM |
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B Ward
 Member since: 1/12/2007 | | RE: I'm suing Shout! Factory for not having a Closed Captions for Mario Bros TV series | Yeah, there are actually laws against asking for donations for things like this. We're not a charity, but a for-profit company.
Brian
Follow me on Twitter! (@BWard028) |
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| 10/22/2010 11:38 AM |
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Shipwreck
 Member since: 4/16/2010 | | RE: I'm suing Shout! Factory for not having a Closed Captions for Mario Bros TV series | | suing is dumb, but I don't see why something like GI JOE the movie can't get captioning. it is a popular enough title to warrant it and I would guess there would be an increase in buys because of the captioning. for those that have great hearing, you can't understand what it is like to have a handicap like this, wait until you are older, you will wish most of your movies had captioning then, |
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| 4/17/2011 6:55 PM |
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fladude
 Member since: 4/17/2011 | | RE: I'm suing Shout! Factory for not having a Closed Captions for Mario Bros TV series | No, at present there are no laws requiring Dvd's be captioned and/or subtitled.. This thread is a bit old, however some facts:
In USA there are an estimated 30 MILLION with some degree of hearing loss, appx 10 pct of population... 1 in 10
Thats a lot of Customers, Add in those with such have family and friends who will only buy for gifts DVD's which have such and thats a potential 60-90 MILLION customers
if simply figure for every hearing impaired theres at least 1 or 2 family or friends looking to buy.
Walmart, Target, etc KNOW those numbers... I was seeking to buy new Dennis the Menace season 1 but in Walmart, nothing on package indicated CC or subtitles.. as it was a shoutfactory item checking here gives no info if it is...so thats one lost sale... I looked at some titles on the website...I would buy but nothing indicates CC or SHD
If shout Factory creates DVD seasons of TV shows and doesn't pay the ONE TIME cost to caption, then they loss revenue from those 30 Million and revenue from the people buying gifts for them... Thats a HUGE amount of sales lost for a ONE TIME outlay...since you only pay the cost once to caption and thats it.
We don't need to sue companys that put out TV seasons, we 30 million can complain to Walmart, Target, Sams Club, etc of their offerings without CC/SHD
and also complain to the owners of such shows... like the owners of Dennis the Menace who may give shout factory the rights... If shout factory actually owns the tv shows outright, then eventually, you find few retail box stores buying...since they don't want to stock things their customers like me will not buy..
Eventually however, there is likely to be LAWS requiring commercial dvd's be captioned/shd in fact recently it was passed that now any Website of a commercial studio/Tv station, etc putting up episiodes of shows on their sites must retain the captions the episodes had when shown over air/cable... no more caption/subtitlless ...caption stripped episiodes like can be on ABC's website etc... BY LAW.
Nor are really Tv shows presently shown on cable/ over air done via sponsoring that much since long years ago congress mandated that they have captions so the studios these days are actually required to caption their shows like House MD ...otherwise no tv station/cable system can show them in USA.
In a way... congress mandate to caption could be extended to DVD releases...
if companys refuse to caption... If 30 million + voters demand it..
so if the marketplace doesn't work to do it by bankrupting companys that don't caption who then have low or no sales and big box stores refusing to retail their products..eventually we will push through laws requiring it same as we pushed through the caption decoder laws that mandate any TV sold in USA to have to have the CC chip
back in 1980's... That would make illegal selling of captionless/no subtitled DVD's in USA.
The Cost is not that much... its a one time cost... if its 5,000 and you then manufacture say 100,000 DVD's of some TV season thats a cost of 0.05 PER DVD
If 50,000 made its 0.10 per
If put out and sell 25,000 its 0.20 as in 20 CENTS for each DVD box made!
More boxed sets of the seasons make and sell lower your overall cost..
It would be silly to pay 5,000 just to make One single boxed season...
But your going to make thousands of boxed sets of the season you caption..
It makes NO Sense at all to NOT caption..
Dennis the menace season one is 24.95 For THAT much I EXPECT captions/subtitles... your not putting out like a cheapo $5 or $10 season set..
Even if only sell say 1,000 boxed sets of Dennis thats $5 cost per Boxed set... you simply ADD the Cost to the retail price... so Instead of $25 you sell Dennis for $30!
Theres just no excuse not to CC/SHD especially as boomers age and age related hearing loss pushes the numbers up to like 50 Million...
Another point I think such as shout factory are missing is that theres a great many with hearing loss who grew up in 50-60's when there was no captioning... we missed out watching fully many shows... theres alot of us out there looking to buy such older tv shows.. Dennis The Menace, Mr ed ( shout doesn't list as CC, I have best of Mr ed Vol 1 and Vol 2 from MGm.... CAPTIONED...) and many others... we are interested in buying and people buying as gifts for us such seasons..
A last thought:
Even HEARING people may prefer to buy dvd's that are captioned/subtitled...
Reason:
Their young kids can hear whats said and pickup at early age words...
and
Late at Night...watching a DVd... turning off/muting sound and watching with captions/SHD...
So every company not CC/SHD is losing many millions of customers..
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| 4/17/2011 7:30 PM |
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adamwade
 Member since: 5/15/2010 | | RE: I'm suing Shout! Factory for not having a Closed Captions for Mario Bros TV series | fladude -
Everyone feels for the situation, but did you read Brian's post above?
The total budget for this title was $2,000. Closed captioning, done by Shout, would be $5-10,000. That's 2.5 to 5 times the budget for the entire title.
When Shout sells these and may only sell a few thousand copies at most, they'd simply not be able to produce them at all. It's unlikely that sales numbers would have shot through the roof had CC been applied.
I think we all really do feel for you - I know I do - but it's the realities of business. They can't spend more on a title than they expect to make, or no one at Shout would be left with jobs. |
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| 4/17/2011 9:56 PM |
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B Ward
 Member since: 1/12/2007 | | RE: I'm suing Shout! Factory for not having a Closed Captions for Mario Bros TV series | Once again, throwing out the number of how many deaf and hard-of-hearing there are in the country doesn't make the adequate point. That number implies there are 30 million+ people who WOULD be buying these sets if they were closed captioned. Sadly, this is not the case. What if only three people of those 30 million bought the captioned sets? Would the money spent be justified? I realize my number is a bit exaggerated, but no more than yours is inflated. I understand and agree that we're missing out on valuable sales. Personally, I want everything to be captioned. After all, if I went deaf, I'd want to be able to enjoy the sets I've had the privilege to produce. Unfortunately, we just can't afford it right now. And certainly couldn't at the time we produced the various Mario Bros. sets.
Additionally, I'd love to know how you think you know our production costs. I can assure you, each set of Dennis the Menace was more than $5 to produce. You're highly overestimating our profit margin.
Brian
Follow me on Twitter! (@BWard028) |
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| 4/18/2011 12:09 PM |
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fladude
 Member since: 4/17/2011 | | RE: I'm suing Shout! Factory for not having a Closed Captions for Mario Bros TV series | My point of numbers was to point out 2 facts...that you cannot look at it as just
those who are severe deaf which would be around 2-3 million, my number and I'm stone deaf, is of the numbers in USA alone who have hearing trouble..it includes those who are HOH
You also have to consider how many lost sales to those who can hear...who don't buy as gifts or if have a impaired family member , don't buy... its not just the numbers who don't hear well, for example my sisters will not buy as a gift.. thats 2, nor my parents thats 2 more, nor my 2 nieces... nor my 4 nephews... nor my aunts and uncles that number 12
nor my cousins that number 15 thats oh my 37 People who would not buy as a gift for me ANY of shouts non-captioned titles in stores...
and i'm just ONE person.
That doesn't include friends...
Multiply it just say for 3 million of the 30 million at an average 25 relatives its 75 million non-customers.
From a marketing standpoint... its bad marketing to not caption...
its simply not just the numbers who are deaf/hoh but all their relatives/friends who would buy gifts for them.
Your sales are likely LOWER due to no captions...
As I said even hearing prefer titles that have Captions/subtitles...
someone watching on TV something at 2 or 3 AM may not want sound on
bothering others in family sleeping.. so want Dvd's that have CC/SHD.
Who knows how many HEARING pass up your titles on that point?
As it is I didn't buy Dennis in walmart, I bought season 3 of JAG
I would have prefered an old Tv show I couldn't hear in 60's
I'm now hoping eventually some other company acquires Dennis and many of your offerings or those owning have some other company do them... unless shout captions...as your denying us access to those shows... Our representives in Congress will hear of it and eventually a law will be passed requiring any SOLD in USA be CC/SHD.
Then all companys not doing it will close up or only sell in the foreign markets.
No Lawsuits needed... Congress will get the message...
And they CAN do it... TV manufacturers refused put CC decoders in all TV models... congress heard us... so the law requiring all sold in USA must decode captions... its already a precedent... small step to a law also requiring DVD sold in USA be CC/SHD.
When that happens companys that don't caption/shd all their titles already... will scramble for hard to get captioners from outside companys that will raise their prices due to demand... thats why shout should hire a salaried in house captioner.
Thats the way TV studios, stations, etc are going...
instead of paying for outside production companys...
Btw as I look at the Shout offerings on website, I just don't see any that clearly state their CC/SHD
If You have titles that have it, the description of the show should state it... I cant even buy off shouts website with no way to know if is..
I have, made by Shout, bought in store :Father Knows Best: Season One
Father Knows Best
Release Date: 4/1/2008
Its marked CC on box and has the CC but the same thing on website doesn't say it has... nor seasons 2-on... I cant even consider buying any other seasons of it as website doesn't state it is CC
As to the cost of captioning ....is a one time cost, some producers or TV fare these days do captioning IN HOUSE.. so costs vary, I belong to a Email list where people both like I and those who are in the captioning business post and the costs vary.
The lowest cost is in house ...if shout factory hired their own captioner to caption ALL your titles your cost would be spread out as it would be a salaried position
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| 4/18/2011 2:24 PM |
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Dirk
 Member since: 1/7/2011 | | RE: I'm suing Shout! Factory for not having a Closed Captions for Mario Bros TV series | | I feel for your situation, but you seriously need to not do math anymore. |
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| 4/18/2011 3:50 PM |
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B Ward
 Member since: 1/12/2007 | | RE: I'm suing Shout! Factory for not having a Closed Captions for Mario Bros TV series | But, by your math, those 37 people are still only buying ONE set. We're not losing 37 separate sales because one person they all mutually know is deaf. Let's be fair. Even if you did receive 37 individual copies, due to a lack of communication within the family, most of those will be returned to the store. Which means, they'll be returned to us. Those sales are void and, again, it costs us a ton of money. After all, if all 3 million had 37 people buy the set for them and all 3 million people returned those 36 duplicate gift copies... Do the math.
Secondly, I don't know a single studio that does captioning in-house. I know three major captioning houses in the greater Los Angeles area and one in Baltimore that do a vast majority of all studio releases. Captioning for professional DVDs (which use only ONE captioning format) takes special equipment and a person to sit and do it. If we have to buy the computer, that's one thing. Now, we have to pay an individual to be a full-time captioner. Except you want us to do all of our DVDs. One person can't do that. We now have to hire a staff of full-time captioners.
So... Where's the one-time fee come in during this scenario?
I'm not sure what it is you want me to say. I've told you I'm on your side. It's just not mathematically feasible. We don't have enough physical money to pay for all of our titles to be captioned.
Brian
Follow me on Twitter! (@BWard028) |
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| 4/18/2011 4:42 PM |
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Shipwreck
 Member since: 4/16/2010 | | RE: I'm suing Shout! Factory for not having a Closed Captions for Mario Bros TV series | | Why wasn't G.I. Joe the Movie closed captioned? Surely, it was a popular enough title. I've seen a lot less popular titles with closed captioning before. |
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| 4/19/2011 8:52 AM |
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B Ward
 Member since: 1/12/2007 | | RE: I'm suing Shout! Factory for not having a Closed Captions for Mario Bros TV series | G.I. Joe: The Movie wasn't captioned for a couple of reasons.
The main reason the show wasn't captioned was our intention of a Blu-ray release. Captioning is expensive. But subtitling is even more expensive. I'll explain. The DVD could be captioned without a problem. But Blu-ray players have a really hard time transmitting caption files to televisions via HDMI cables, at this point. Blu-rays require subtitling. Captioning the DVD, while choosing not to subtitle the Blu-ray wasn't an option. But doing the movie twice wasn't within our budget.
Brian
Follow me on Twitter! (@BWard028) |
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