What would it take to get the takara shows (headmasters, masterforce, victory, zone) a release in america? UK and au both have it and america gets nothing. Is there anyway at all to get a r1 release? How about selling a try-out dvd on shouts website? You could include the first episode of all three shows. These shows need a R1 release.
Nope. Masterforce and victory are region 2. They will not play on american dvd players. Plus they are out of print and in pal. We need a region 1 release.
There was a region free dvd set of all 3 show released a few years back prior to the UK set. Unlike the UK release, these sets were dubbed in English back in the 80's, apparently for the Sinapore and Hong Kong English speaking audience.
I was actually speaking to someone about this the other day. Obviously, we have a very good relationship with Hasbro and would like to pursue additional titles from their library. Without any promises, of course, are the Takara collections something you'd like to see on DVD in the States? I have all three of Metrodome's volumes, which run the gamut of quality, in terms of both animation and all-around storytelling. So is this collection, which has never officially been available in the U.S., something most Transformers fans would like to see done right? Or is it something aimed only at the hardest core fans?
I've been patiently waiting/hoping that the Takara Transformer shows would be released here in the states ever since I found out that they existed about 8 years ago. So yes, if Shout sells them, I'll buy them.
I have to agree - seeing a release of these shows in the US would be pretty awesome.
That said, the elephant in the room is the audio track. Would Shout! Factory consider attempting to put together an English dub for these shows? Let's face it - there's a certain demographic that won't watch anything unless it's in English, after all, and these shows, barring fandubs and the occasional HORRIBLE dub, have never really gotten a proper English dub to my knowledge.
Given the shows, from what I recall, primarily feature new characters (or, characters portrayed very differently than their introduction in Rebirth in the US), what's the feasibility of doing a new dub BUT bringing back Cullen and Welker to reprise their brief roles as Soundwave/Galvatron/Optimus Prime? After all, the Japanese shows write out the characters played by the old VAs rather quickly for the most part.
I would definitely like to see the Japanese G1 shows be brought into the United States. Shout Factory did a splendid job with their re-release of the American G1 series, so it would be a huge token of their esteem to give the American Transformers fans the long-overdue release of the Japanese G1 series.
As an owner of shout's Matrix of Leadership Collector's Edition, I would be extremely interested in a US release of the Japanese series in any form. A new english dub would great, but I would also be extremely happy with subtitles as well.
Absolutely! I'd recommend prioritizing doing a version that retains the original Japanese soundtrack and simply has subtitles over a dub, but if an English dub is included, it would be preferable to create an all-new (and more accurate!) dub than the existing Star TV version.
Though if these were all in a boxset to accompany the Matrix... what should it look like, for that matter? I can't say I'm horribly familiar with the Japanese cartoons (and would buy those if released in North America in a boxset, like I got the awesome Matrix set).
Maybe store them as Powermaster/Headmaster themed items? Dunno.
Here is one more fan name to add to the list of people that want these shows to be released in America. I would LOVE getting some official releases of the show. The only one that I have ever seen part of was victory, and that is on VHS that a friend brought back from Japan in the early 90s. While I had mostly no clue what was going on because I do not speak Japanese and they were not subtitled, I loved that tape until it was almost unwatchable.
We need these shows here to complete our collections and I would buy them the day they hit the shelves in US stores.
Add me to the list of folks who'd be buying these on release day! I've only ever seen fan dubs of some of the episodes from these series, and as a die-hard Geewunner, I've been itching to see these done properly for years... at least since the internet came along and informed me that there was some Japanese-exclusive post-G1 material out there I'd never seen. :)
So yes, please do see what can be sone about bringing these shows over to our side of the pond.
I will preorder them in a heartbeat. I bought your Matrix DVD set and got rid of my Rhino DVDs as soon as it arrived. I have the UK DVDs for the Japanese series but can not watch them except on my region 2 set laptop dvd drive. I would love higher quality US released DVDs.
If you're looking at the other series, I will also buy, in a heartbeat, any US DVD releases of Beast Wars II, Beast Wars Neo, Micron Legend, Super Link, Galaxy Force, and Car Robots, IF they feature the original Japanese audio with Subtitles.
I would love to see these old shows. I tried to watch them on youtube but my computer is not that great so it's only so-so. I'd love to see them in some spiffy dvd box sets.
There can NEVER be enough Transformers (especially g1) cartoon goodness!
----- Original Post ----- by General Tekno at 2/1/2010 12:45:43 PM
That said, the elephant in the room is the audio track. Would Shout! Factory consider attempting to put together an English dub for these shows? Let's face it - there's a certain demographic that won't watch anything unless it's in English, after all, and these shows, barring fandubs and the occasional HORRIBLE dub, have never really gotten a proper English dub to my knowledge.
The above. I wouldn't be interested in importing (for me) a sub-only set, or a set with the horrible Malay dub, but a proper, fully-translated dub voiced by decent VAs (not concerned with original VAs) would interest me if it could be afforded...
I signed up specifically to answer this. Absolutely, without a doubt, I would be very interested in a US release of these series. Especially if they are done right. I believe most Transformers fans, who have never seen these (except possibly outside of the poorly dubbed version) would be VERY interested in these being released here.
I don't care if it was Dubbed or Subbed, (Though an English Dub would be awesome) I would snatch up any Japanese G1 era show made available in the states.Or for that matter Beast Wars the Second or Beast Wars Neo.
I would be very interested in releases of all three shows!
My apologies for the separate thread post, I'm new here and didn't realize that the action I took wouldn't create a reply to this thread. Please delete the separate thread if possible!
Without a doubt I would buy these! I bought the Matrix set with no hesitation, and I've been wanting to see these since I first found out about them in the early 1990's.
It should be noted, especially if this topic has found its way over to other forums, that it was merely a question posted by myself and not any kind of hint or allusion to having the rights tied up. At the moment, we're not even discussing it with Hasbro. But I like to do my "polling," before going to the powers that be with legit suggestions for titles to be released. Please make it clear elsewhere that this is ONLY a matter of curiosity, at this point. Thanks, guys!
I would buy all three series if shout were to release them. It would be neat for shout to do an all japanese transformers boxset like the recent US g1 set if they released them.
I just registered to say yes, yes I would, without a shadow of a doubt, purchase the previously Japanese exclusive Transformers series. I love them for all their cheese and style.
----- Original Post ----- by B Ward at 2/1/2010 10:13:32 AM
I was actually speaking to someone about this the other day. Obviously, we have a very good relationship with Hasbro and would like to pursue additional titles from their library. Without any promises, of course, are the Takara collections something you'd like to see on DVD in the States? I have all three of Metrodome's volumes, which run the gamut of quality, in terms of both animation and all-around storytelling. So is this collection, which has never officially been available in the U.S., something most Transformers fans would like to see done right? Or is it something aimed only at the hardest core fans?
Let me know.
Brian "Know Thyself"
--Thales
I don't consider myself a hardcore fan. But having Headmasters, Masterforce, and Victory would be a very nice thing. I have seen a lot of English dubbed shows and a lot of them just don't seem to be up to par nor do I favor them personally. I always prefer good quality subtitles (not "dubtitles" which are closed-caption subtitles for the dub) that is both consistent and correct. An example of inconsistency is the Street Fighter Alpha "movie" where Gouki (aka Akuma in US) is spoken in the Japanese language track yet the subtitle displays Akuma.
If you do intend on bringing out these three series to America, I only ask that you please keep the Japanese language intact as well as providing quality subtitles for fans like me.
Do this. Hardcore fans will be all over it, there will be some interest in it by Casual Fans, and the Anime Fans will be all over it as well. Kind of like Media Blasters when they released Golion after Voltron.
Yes, yes, and YES please. But the infamous Omni Productions English dubs for Headmasters, Masterforce and Victory really need to be redubbed prior to release, although it would be a nice bonus to include the original, hilariously-bad dub tracks.
Even as a purist when it comes to voices, I still would like to hear quality English dubs done for all the Takara-produced series that are equal to today's dub standards.
If Shout! can't spare the expense for new dubs, I would like to see US releases subtitled with the original Japanese dialog, but include the English audio as alternate audio tracks...however bad they may be just because they're so historically bad.
But as a TF fan, for me a "greater priority" would be an expanded, 2-disc commemorative edition of TFTM on both DVD and Blu-Ray. The 2006 Sony release was pretty decent, but still left me wanting more. And the UK has since gotten better releases than the US did, including a quality Blu-Ray transfer (or so I'm told).
And more importantly than TFTM, Transformers Animated is still missing a S3 release, and the entire series absolutely must be released in its original widescreen aspect ratio too. It's been reported that Paramount no longer has the distribution rights for the series.
I also would very much like to see the Saban-produced "Robots in Disguise" get a proper US release which includes both the original Japanese dialog with subtitles and the English dub. Once again, the UK has gotten the better end of the deal with DVD releases.
And ditto for the Japanese TF series like BW 2nd and BW Neo. A new quality dub would be great for either or both, but I would prefer subtitled.
I too would love to see a DVD release for each of the Japanese G1 Transformers. I saw the "english dubbed" versions first and later have come across them in their subtitled forms. Whether a new dub (highly recommended) or simply a subtitled version is released for these, count me in for buying them!
Ideally, I'd want the option of the original audio track with English subtitles, or the horrid ( but still fun ) bad English dub that's out there ( with the option of the superior English subs ), or even better a whole new sub done with volunteers ( like me, so it's cheap ) to at least get the translation correct.
I have the madmen sets. I've only been watching the Masterforce ones so far, and the subs seem excellent to me. At least there haven't been any obvious errors to someone who speaks zero Japanese. Not to mention, 3 interesting commentaries by Chris!
But that being said, I'd only consider buying the Shout ones if they remastered them. The tracking is shaky on them, there's all kinds of dirt/snow/fuzziness/something, the colors all feel muted, and some times there are some "ghost images" at times (not the intentional ones where they're trying to make it look slow-mo).
If anyone doesn't already own Madmen or Metrodome sets, and they do get a Shout! release, I can definitely recommend the Masterforce series. Headmasters is only interesting in that it "continues" the story of the G1 favorites, of course what it puts the Autobots through makes the devastation of AHM looks like nothing. Victory, I've tried to watch on the old VHS tapes 3 times, and each time I get less and less into it before just falling asleep during every episode. So yeah, check out Masterforce.
But for the non-hardcore, Headmasters will have the most appeal, but the dub as-is is really unusable, and I don't know how subs only would go over with the general audience.
Of course, "new dubs" is a pipe dream, but if it was done then they'd be a definite buy. A HD transfer would also be tempting, but not really worthwhile.
Also, here's the thread over on TFW2005. Lots of interested parties, but then when it's not $5 a lot of those "definitely" back out.
I registered just to reply and put in my voice. YES, I would buy all existing Takara shows. Headmasters, Masterforce, and Victory. For sure Car Robots. And what I personally would DIE to get are all the Beast Wars shows. So their Japanese dub of Beast Wars, Beast Wars: Metals, Beast Wars: Returns, and mostly, Beast Wars the Second and Beast Wars Neo. I would love subtitles for these. If The 2nd and Neo were turned into the next T.V. series, I would love an actual dub. But just for a DVD boxed set, I perfer subs.
So yes. I'm sure you'd make a profit.
EDIT: Also, on a side note, could we get the freaking English release of Robots on Disguise on DVD please? The U.K. has it, but the U.S. does not. ::sad panda::
On a personal note, I would love to see the Japanese exclusive series finally released here in the States though. I'd get them too just for the sake of comparing video and audio to the other versions that I have received over the years. I would strongly support Shout! releasing these sets just for the sake of making them easily accessible to everyone here in the U.S.
Ryan
----- Original Post -----
by gaastra at 2/1/2010 7:53:33 AM
Nope. Masterforce and victory are region 2. They will not play on american dvd players. Plus they are out of print and in pal. We need a region 1 release.
Oh, also note - while remastered video would be the minimum to get me to consider these sets (since I own the madmen sets), that BW Neo and BW II have had NO dvd releases that I know of, and I'd definitely be interested in those sets (with a good sub). Some other people over on TFW2005 have been voicing the same as well.
Definitely yes. Owning these three shows in R1 has been a dream of mine since I started collecting DVDs. And, as I'm sure you are about to discover, I'm not alone in this dream. So please please persue this. And, as an added note a lot of us would also love to have Japanese shows such as Beast Wars II, Beast Wars Neo, and Car Robots. If these six series made it to DVD the US would finally have every single Transformers series on DVD (save the last season of TF Animated).
Im signing up for this forum just to say that I'd be VERY interested. I've always wanted a set like this, even as far as to consider a R2 DVD player from overseas.
I am honestly mixed. I would probably buy them just to get rid of R2 DVD player that does not work 100% of the time.
The question is would they be subtitled or english dubbed version?
Personally I would like to see RID first but that is just me.
MM
I would really be interested in this. Owning the Matrix of Leadership box set, and knowing the care you guys put into it really assure me this would be a definite buy. Cheers, and thanks for the work you've already put into the G1 box set.
I would buy the foreign Transformers shows ONLY if they kept the really really terrible English dub. I love the terrible English dub. It basically makes these terribly boring shows watchable.
Seriously, these episodes are awful. Only the crazy-flakes English dub can transform it into something enjoyable. --David Willis
www.shortpacked.com
www.tfwiki.net
I have to be honest, I don't care for them in the least. I'd rather see effort dedicated to US shows, given that Paramount has seemingly lost Transformers: Animated, and we've still got a season to go, I'd rather not see Transformers Animated end up like The Adventures of Pete and Pete. Plus Beast Wars could really use a better release for season 1, at the very least, although it is far more easily available.
i think its a good idea to bring those shows over here since the ones that are dub dont have sound right coz i watch some of those and i didnt like them.
Absolutely have been drooling to see what we MISSED when G1 went off the air and all the things that we could possibly have wanted back then that we didn't really get a chance for in the 80's!!! There has to be a Region 1 release, It's just NEEDED!!!!!!
I completely agree with what General Tekno said here. I honestly would rather the english dubs that exist be NOT included in such a set because I really think they are so bad that they will damage the true nature of these episodes. Ginrai is not Prime.
PLEASE bring back the original voice actors where applicable. The Headmasters series is really the only place where any previous voices would be needed. And I think the G1-loving crowd would be that much risher for the experience.
Peter Cullen not only reprising Prime, but this time reprising the role of G1 Prime? That is gold.
And Frank Welker back as Galvatron?
How could that not sell?
----- Original Post -----
by General Tekno at 2/1/2010 12:45:43 PM
I have to agree - seeing a release of these shows in the US would be pretty awesome.
That said, the elephant in the room is the audio track. Would Shout! Factory consider attempting to put together an English dub for these shows? Let's face it - there's a certain demographic that won't watch anything unless it's in English, after all, and these shows, barring fandubs and the occasional HORRIBLE dub, have never really gotten a proper English dub to my knowledge.
Given the shows, from what I recall, primarily feature new characters (or, characters portrayed very differently than their introduction in Rebirth in the US), what's the feasibility of doing a new dub BUT bringing back Cullen and Welker to reprise their brief roles as Soundwave/Galvatron/Optimus Prime? After all, the Japanese shows write out the characters played by the old VAs rather quickly for the most part.
Shortpacked:
"I would buy the foreign Transformers shows ONLY if they kept the really really terrible English dub. I love the terrible English dub. It basically makes these terribly boring shows watchable.
Seriously, these episodes are awful. Only the crazy-flakes English dub can transform it into something enjoyable."
Objectively: Bring em all! I'd love them all to be released here: Headmasters, Masterforce, and Victory. (And Beast Wars II and Beast Wars Neo as well at that.) Just be great to have them available in the US.
Realisticly: I'd buy a couple if they're "as is." In interests of honesty I own a region-free DVD player and the region free Headmasters and the Region 2 Masterforce boxes from the UK. If released "as is" (Japanese dialogue, English subs, and maybe the very funny-aweful Maylay dub) I would definately buy Victory which I've never seen and perhaps (depending on prices) Masterforce again to have it R1.
Ideally, dream-wise, what would it take to make me buy'emall? New English Dubs. I know that's probably a bigger production than is likely to realistically happen, but if you went for it THAT would make me (and probably a lot of other folks) puchase every single one.
When I see posts like these, where people talk about Shout! hiring voice actors (like Cullen and Welker) to create an English dub for the Takara episodes, I feel like I ought to jump in and point out that this is probably not going to happen. And least not by Shout! Factory...they are a DVD production house, not a "studio" in the traditional sense of the word of hiring actors and producing new material (other than supplemental extras, of course).
Recently Shout! had plans to release the '80s series Werewolf on DVD, and had to shelve those plans because two songs in episodes were too expensive to license the rights to. They couldn't replace the music because there were no separate tracks for the music and the dialogue, and the dialogue was too important to lose and the scenes too important to cut. The suggestion was made to hire actors (hopefully the original ones) to re-dub their lines for those scenes. Brian Ward quickly pointed out that this wasn't an option:
I'm afraid hiring the cast for re-looping is out of the question. For starters, certain members necessary specifically turned us down for interviews, let alone a complete performance. In addition, we simply couldn't afford that. I mean, it would require studio time (and a lot of it for ADR) and SAG rates for each performer. Then, lord forbid there be sound effects throughout the scene. We'd need foley artists, as well. We don't have the money for a full post production session on these titles. The studios wouldn't have even footed the bill for something like that.
I'm going to assume that hiring Peter Cullen and Frank Welker (or even less familiar names) to produce new English dubs for the Takara Transformers episodes would fall into the exact same category for Shout! Factory, don't you agree?
I also remember that somewhere (possibly on these very forums) Brian briefly mentioned that there had been scheduling challenges which occurred in getting as much of the voice cast of the original show together as possible to produce the extras for the Complete "Matrix" box set. Many of these people are still very busy, much-in-demand people! So that would be an issue, too, I suppose.
----- Original Post -----
by notpicard at 2/2/2010 4:31:49 AM
I completely agree with what General Tekno said here. I honestly would rather the english dubs that exist be NOT included in such a set because I really think they are so bad that they will damage the true nature of these episodes. Ginrai is not Prime.
PLEASE bring back the original voice actors where applicable. The Headmasters series is really the only place where any previous voices would be needed. And I think the G1-loving crowd would be that much risher for the experience.
Peter Cullen not only reprising Prime, but this time reprising the role of G1 Prime? That is gold.
And Frank Welker back as Galvatron?
How could that not sell?
----- Original Post -----
by General Tekno at 2/1/2010 12:45:43 PM
I have to agree - seeing a release of these shows in the US would be pretty awesome.
That said, the elephant in the room is the audio track. Would Shout! Factory consider attempting to put together an English dub for these shows? Let's face it - there's a certain demographic that won't watch anything unless it's in English, after all, and these shows, barring fandubs and the occasional HORRIBLE dub, have never really gotten a proper English dub to my knowledge.
Given the shows, from what I recall, primarily feature new characters (or, characters portrayed very differently than their introduction in Rebirth in the US), what's the feasibility of doing a new dub BUT bringing back Cullen and Welker to reprise their brief roles as Soundwave/Galvatron/Optimus Prime? After all, the Japanese shows write out the characters played by the old VAs rather quickly for the most part.
Yes. I love my Matrix set as well. I would buy all Japanese TF cartoon series, including Beast Wars. This would be awesome!!!!!! Especially if the shows were given English voice over treatment.
I am yet another person who joined this forum for the sole reason that I am interested in seeing official Region 1 releases of these DVDs. That being said, I did already go to the trouble of importing the UK releases for Headmasters, Masterforce, and Victory, so in order for me to buy them for more than just convenience (e.g. not high priority), some extra content would be called for. The requested new dub for the series (which doesn't have to be brilliant, just better than what exists) would be an excellent step. I am also addicted to extra features and commentaries, so if a dub is entirely unworkable (or only works if we have to pay like $50 a season) then that is an easy way to get fans like me to re-buy it. Note that including a new, well written and performed English dub would mean I'd swallow a "premium" price point (though I'd have to save up for it).
Still, even an "as is" release that just includes the original audio, the horrible dub, etc. would still be something I'd eventually purchase if it were clocking in for the same price as the current releases. A little effort just pushes them higher up for priority, and a lot of effort just ensures they have priority. ;)
I also own the UK release of RiD, and while that doesn't need a new dub, including the Japanese dub (even if only for episodes that weren't heavily edited) easily makes me buy them over again. I never got any other Japanese only series, so Beast Wars II and Beast Wars Neo released over here are very enticing, and again if you want to go big with an English dub for them, become instant must haves (even if I find I don't like them XD). Again, extra commentaries and similar features are welcome.
I am pretty sure that any Transformers fan would of course LOVE TO SEE THESE SERIES RELEASED HERE IN THE US!! I have bought bad copies of VHS, DVD, and computer only copies of these shows with varying results from crappy to pretty good. And while Shout is at it how about the Beast Wars II and Neo series as well. I know that I will not have any problem with purchasing these sets even if it means that I have to eat cold cereal for weeks at a time!! In fact that would be great because then I could eat my cold cereal while watching these shows in much better quality then I have seen in the past so HELL YES I WOULD PURCHASE THESE!!! GET STARTED ALREADY!!!
Freedom is the right of all Sentient beings.......and quality copies of foreign Transformers shows as well!!!
I for one would be ecstatic if the Shout would release Headmasters, Victory & Masterforce finally in the states. Maybe I'm asking for too much as it'd be an ambitious feet to accomplish but if the original voice cast could gotten together to make new dubs, that would be even better! At the very least I would love a Headmasters release since it's the one mostly tied to G1 imho.
I would love to get a region 1 release of these shows... I do have the UK dvds but I can only play them on my computer dvd rom using VLC Player... Having these shows released in the US would be so much easier... I know for a fact that there is a high demand for this collection... Oh and seeing a redub with a new voice cast of these shows would be awesome...
PLEASE do everything you can to get us these series here in the U.S!!!! PLEASE! I would buy my usual 2 sets , 1 to keep sealed and 1 to watch and enjoy! ALL my friends would do the same! First time seen in U.S. G1 Transformers series, with Transformers popularity at its all time high....DVD GOLD! PLEASE!!!!
With the popularity of the franchise at an all time high, this could be an excellent move! Multiple countries have already released the three Japanese exclusive series on DVD, long time and younger fans search for these episodes everywhere, and it has never been done in the U.S. before. I am personally okay with only having the episodes with the Japanese audio track and new subtitles since it would be unrealistic to expect a new audio dub to replace the terrible Star TV dubs.
It would just be fantastic to finally be able to own not only the original Generation One series but to also own the Japanese exclusive continuation. I could think of no better company to do it also. Shout! Factory's work on the original series with the restoration, bonus content, and all around care for the property and the fans is encouraging. If there is a chance to get these episodes, release them with the same care, and put them out a great price, this fan's vote is to go for it!
We need these to be sold in America and be done in spoken English not English subtitles, it wasn't fair that England and Austrailia got the Headmasters, Masterforce, and Victory when the United States is the country that makes more money for Takara and Hasbro. We should have gottin access to legit copies to own long ago but now they could fix all that with todays technology. Hope to see them on American shelves soon. There is another Transformers series to look into is Transformers Robots In Disguise, The 911 series should be brought to American shores too. It would be kinda nice to feel like America can have access to stuff once again and to feel like Americans once more.
I, personally, would love to see the Takara collections in a Region 1 release the caliber Shout! Factory has put out for other sets. I do own the Metrodome sets, but since I am limited to only being able to watch them on my computer's DVD drive, they don't exactly see a lot of play.
Of course, that is my opinion as a hardcore G1 Transfan but, unfortunately, I don't think there is really all that much of an awareness of these series to the general Transformers fan who might casually pick it up. Seeing as how the Takara series take place after the third season of Transformers, the window of opportunity for attracting consumers is fairly small, particularly with the conclusion of the season sets looming.
I don't think any Transformers fan would want the dub which was made for the episodes. I only watched portions of it out of morbid curiosity and to hear the most infamous pieces of dialogue.
----- Original Post -----
by B Ward at 2/1/2010 10:13:32 AM
I was actually speaking to someone about this the other day. Obviously, we have a very good relationship with Hasbro and would like to pursue additional titles from their library. Without any promises, of course, are the Takara collections something you'd like to see on DVD in the States? I have all three of Metrodome's volumes, which run the gamut of quality, in terms of both animation and all-around storytelling. So is this collection, which has never officially been available in the U.S., something most Transformers fans would like to see done right? Or is it something aimed only at the hardest core fans?
I already own the 3 Metrodome releases but I'd ditch them in a Heartbeat for REgion One Releases not to mention another 15 people I know that would buy them in a heartbeat.
On a side note would you use the Asian tracks that were used for the syndication in the Phillipenes or just go with the original Asain tracks with subtitles? Or in a pure dream how possible would it be for an American voice cast with some of the original voice actors lending thier voices for all new tracks, making it easier for Hasbro to syndicate the shows here in the states?
Thanks for your time
Rob
PS: I just signed up today when I heard about this & a friend told me about C.O.P.S. Vol. 2 & 3 being store exclusives.
I would definitely buy all three of these series. If they redub the shows with quality voice actors, I will pay double over a simple re-release of the original english dubbing.
Brain, please ask P.T. Shoutfactory to let you release this. We all want it. I have time and moneye and intition and a lot of other things waiting for this. Come one fatcats "On the 6th day the Lord created BRAIN WARD, and on the 7th he rested, cause making BRAIN WARD was exhausting"
You asked what dub they used. It was the star tv dub and they had japan with english subtitles. Zone only got subtitles. There is a zone and scramble city fandubs that you could use by the way.
I would LOVE to get at least Headmasters and Masterforce on DVD in north America. There's a whole TON of people over at TFW2005 who would love to see the Japanese cartoons released on DVD as well. http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-news-rumors/289980-shout-factory-wants-know-if-we-want-takara-cartoon-dvd.html
yes bring it on, i would love to see these shows. i already have some discs of headmasters on the horrible monotone english dub. need them all, please make a decent dub.
I don't think many are expecting Frank Welker and Peter Cullen to do the voices (their characters aren't in it much anyways), but a good English dub with lesser known voice actors (or even just a good fan dub) would be beneficial. It would allow more mainstream marketing of the titles unless Shout! plans to just stick with the hardcore Transformers and anime crowd. Plus, maybe Hasbro would finance it if it meant they could show it on their new cable channel coming out in the future.
i also was not a member of the forum until i heard about this thread. i bought the G1 matrix collection and love it. you guys did an amazing job. and i would love to buy G1 japanese series from you also!!!!!!!!
Welcome to the forum, guys. Stick around and you'll hear more from me in the near future, I'm sure.
Also, look around at our store. If you like Transformers & G.I. Joe, I guarantee you're gonna find something else to your liking. I'm not saying you have to buy anything, but you'll at least get a broader picture of what it is we produce here.
Enjoy and, again, welcome. Thanks for the information, guys!
Ever since I came back to the US in Nov 1984, after spending three years in Germany (Air Force Brat), I became instantly hooked to this interesting concept I had never before seen back then. That being, The Transformers. Now, in 2010, I have a son of my own. And, as he gets older and understands things, I want for him to know more than what the US shows on TV, being only those series' that have debuted. He already has come to know G1 (courtesy of Rhino and Shout!, as well as the Sony release of the 1986 animated movie), Beast Wars and Beast Machines, Robots in Disguise, Armada, Energon, and Animated. And, of course, let's not forget both live Transformers films.
What I want to teach him is that if you are going to love something, then explore all parts. So, I vote yes on a release of the only-Japanese Transformers series'. After all, I have been a collector and fan of most anything Transformers and have been wanting to add these as well. So, I guess you can say I want them for both my collection and for my son's continued fandom.
YES! you guys should really put these out I would buy them all on sight! The english dubs are terrible, it would be REALLY nice to have them redone as well. But just releasing them with the original japanese voice overs and the really bad english dubs would be good enough for me. Don't forget about Zone too, I think it was only 1 episode and considered the very last in the G1 series.
I think you should do what the Sailor Moon DVDs do....offer people the choice between English dub, or Japanese with subtitles. It seems like the most economical balance that caters to both people who want it as "original" as possible and people who wish to be able to listen without reading. While a better quality dub would be nice, I don't know if it's cost-effective and certainly wouldn't want to miss out on the sets over an issue like that.
It would be great if these shows (and Zone) were finally released in North America! I'd definitely be interested in WATCHING them. I'd only BUY them, though, if a "dream dub" could be made with as many of the original voice actors as possible. Maybe I'm a snob, but as good as the Michael Bay movies are, I have trouble relating the Transformers characters in the films to the ones we watched growing up. Optimus is the only one who sounds like Optimus. A silver Sideswipe who doesn't even sound like Sideswipe is hard for me to swallow. He's supposed to be red!
For the new characters, Peter Cullen could play Ginrai and Victory Leo. Judd Nelson (or maybe Dick Gautier) could play Star Saber. Stan Jones could play Black Zarak. The Headmaster characters could be performed by the actors who played the Nebulans. In any case, the actors in the "dream dub" should at least make an effort to sound like the characters did in G1.
A dream dub would probably need the script revised to be more accessible for an American audience, such as was done with Star Blazers. (The subtitled versions I've seen looked "dumbed down" to me.) If a "dream dub" could be made, I'd volunteer to do that myself, free of charge.
A previous poster mentioned that Shout Factory does not have the resources to make something like this happen. I understand -- but it's nice to dream. :)
I'd be thrilled to see these hit R1, and I'm with @Shortpacked in that the dire, dire existing English dubs make them much more fun to watch. (Honestly, I skipped the R2 versions of Masterforce and Victory because I wasn't interested in having the shows without that dub. But the other Shout Factory! title I go for in a big way is MST3K, so perhaps I'm a bad Transformers fan type outlier who wants her comedy gold instead.)
(Not that there's anything wrong with that, I'm *sure*.)
I would honestly have no interest whatsoever in a new English-language dub, unless it were somehow as bad as the old one or worse. If both could co-exist along with the original Japanese language track, that'd be fine by me -- the people who want a shiny new audio track can have that, and the people who want the scary crack can go there.
I would think that anyone who bought more than just Season 1 would probably buy these as well. Any "casual" fan would've stopped after the first set, so you could probably get a good prediction of the amount of copies you'll sell by taking a small percentage off of what the final G1 set sells for.
I would buy these for sure, and I already own the UK sets.
Headmasters features the original Japanese audio track with newly-created English subtitles, with the Omni Productions dub as a second option. Super-God Masterforce includes only the Japanese audio with subtitles, this time translated by Jordan L. Derber. Victory includes only the Japanese audio, with subs by Derber. I hope this helps.
To add my two-cents worth, the Japanese collection is something that Shout! could really make its mark on the fandom and have a lot of fun too. Unlike the Complete G1 collection which so many fans previously had in their collection in one form or another, this is something new to vast numbers of North American fans. I sure many of us would certainly leap over small buildings (or at least small children) to get our hands on a North American release.
Certainly, a cleaned up, subtitled version would be a nice touch for any collection. I don't believe, from a business perspective, that Shout! could go far wrong with such a release. Ideally, a release would feature a new English audio track, one that is faithful to the original story. The good news is that the focus on new Transformers, other than the early part of Headmasters, allows for a new cast to be assembled for such dialogue duties. That said, it would be amazing if Peter Cullen and Frank Welker back in the studio for the Optimus Prime, Galvatron and Soundwave portions of the early episodes (and don't forget Sue Blu as Arcee and Corey Burton as Spike). As for boxart, you could have a tech spec readout resembling the toy feature that appeared when a head was added to a Headmaster body, or a stylized "Pretender" shell.
I would love to see as many japanese tf's series as possible released,however I agree that "head masters" and "masterforce" have alot of really bad dub translations,I know that someone who posted above says that Shout isn't a producer so shout wouldn't do any dubbs,but I think that Hasbro should do something to fix the dubbs since it IS there product ,if they don't redo all the dubbs at least have someone who has a similar voice as the other voice actors go in the studio to fix the wrong names,aka Sparkle,Billy,Optimus prime/genrai etc.also "zone" would make a great bonus feature since it's only one episode,then after these 3 series then BW2 and NEO should be dubbed (by hasbro) and released..also I have a feeling that in the next couple years there's gong to be a whole BW's nostalgia type thing..Disney owns RID so I have a feeling that's one series we shouldn't hold our breathes for..
I would also like to put my vote in for having all 3 series done for us folks over here. Shout! did a great job with the original series, just thinking of that kind of treatment on these episodes would be Awesome!
I agree completely. There isn't even any need for supplemental material except, maybe, for isolated intro and closing credits, like Rhino did for Transformers on the bonus disc in the first season's set. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere way back when I first heard about the Japanese episodes in the late nineties that the credits are burned into the animation and, therefore, no creditless versions exist.
The real coup would be to include Scramble City, in its original form, considering only the animation was included on the 20th Anniversary edition of the movie.
I would buy the japaneze Transformers sets in a heart beat. It would be a win win for shout you would get the transformers fans buying the sets, and anime fans would pick it up too. Plus it would be an easy sell to whip out a a boxset just before the release of the next TF movie. Disney is releasing Xmen volume 5 and Iron Man the 90s animated series only a few days prior to the release of Iron Man. Many people bought xmen dvds on cartoon when wolverine came into theatres and when it came on blu ray and dvd.
I would absolutely buy the Headmasters series (even though it is the worst of the three) because it deals with toys that were released in the U.S. My unfamiliarity with the characters in Victory and Masterforce makes it inessential for me. Perhaps you could pitch releasing Headmasters and seeing how it does before going forward with the other two?
Also, let me second the suggestion than an isolated music track of the G1 score be included as a bonus feature. That was the one thing missing from the Matrix of Leadership set. The great score by Johnny Douglas and Robert J. Walsh is one of the often overlooked features of the G1 series.
I usually read this forum once in a while but have never posted.
I have all 3 of the Australian Madmen sets. I would gladly re purchase each one if Shout Factory decides to release these. I will hound my friends mercilessly until they also purchase them. This has been a dream of mine ever since the day I realized these shows existed.
I do not care if you don't re dub it, as long as you have subtitles. A new dub would clear up a lot of confusion though. Any special features at all are not necessary but would be appreciated.
PLEASE release these. Thank you for even discussing. I have waited for this day!
I'd buy them, but only if they had the original Japanese audio with removable Literal English Translation Subtitles (NOT English subtitles based on a dub a.k.a. "dubtitles"). If possible, I'd like the picture and audio quality to be equal to Toei's Japanese DVD releases, which I've heard looked a lot better than Metrodrome's PAL releases. Having the Omni dub would be a nice novelty, but I would NOT want it to the be only audio track.
Oh, and any chance of seeing Scramble City with its original audio track (it was on Sony's release of the G1 movie, but only with a commentary track)? Likewise, there was some alternate footage that was on Sony's G1 movie release that only had a commentary track, and I'd LOVE to see it released with its original audio somehow, someday, perhaps on a Shout! re-release of the movie?
I'd also buy the Beast Wars Japanese spin-offs (as well as the Beast Wars II movie), the original Japanese versions of Car Robots/Robots In Disguise and the Unicron Trilogy (Minicon Legend/Armada, Superlink/Energon and Galaxy Force/Cybertron), and if possible, season sets of Beast Wars, Beast Machines and Transformers Animated.
Even if this just an informal poll I would absolutely LOVE for the Japanese TF episodes be available out here for us to buy.
And if you are able to go through with this, may I please add on a request that if this did occur, to please include the one episode of TF that was only made in Japan bridging the first two seasons of the TV show with the movie?
The one that's on the TF Animated Movie DVD but for rights reasons has no audio except for fan commentary?
Hey Brian, I read on He-Man,org that you were considering the Takara Transformers.
I personally own the Metrodome complete set (The one that comes with Zone) and I would gladly double dip and buy an R1 release, BUT... only on the following conditions:
All regarding Headmasters
1. Do a new SUBTITLE track
Let's be honest.... Metrodome's subtitle track sucked. Lines mis-timed, mistranslated, and in one episode they even goofed and included subs from a completely different episode (which, in doing so, created a huge series spoiler!)
Also, one thing that personally bugged me was that neither the subs nor the dubs maintained individual character quirks, like Grimlock's "me Grimlock say..." or Wheelie's rhymes. Now, you can argue that this is an improvement, but personally I think it feels kinda weird watching these classic characters but seeing them behave differently than I know they do.
I was actually considering a fansub project for the sole express purpose of retranslating the show (actually just rewriting the Metrodome script) to put these quirks back in. I would still be willing to do it, if for some reason you're not.
2. Get different video masters
Metrodome's release (as well as Madman's, which was based on Metrodome's) used bad masters for Headmasters (wow, redundant). In addition to generally being low-quality, their release was missing things like the pre-title sequences (which were often just recaps, but other times contained important story information) and the commercial bumpers.
We really deserve better, and I personally do not see a point of buying an R1 release if it will just be the same as the R2 and R4 releases
Also, in general:
If you can, get Scramble City and Zone. I understand part of the problem is licensing issues, but it would be awesome if you could get them and really round out the package.
I think at lease getting the Headmasters dvd out would be a good way to get a feel for how the others would fair. I'm all for more Transformers and some of the stuff that came out of japan was pretty good. I'm not sure how you guys would handle a dub though, or if it would just be subbed
I would LOVE to see a US/NTSC release of these shows. However, they will need a lot of work. I was planning on importing the Madman DVD sets, and redoing the subs myself. Although the subs are a big improvement over the horrendous dubs everyone knows about, the existing subs still suck. With all the work you guys did on the G1 DVDs I'm sure you're capable of fixing all the glaring mistakes in the existing subs, (the main problem is there are a lot of literal translations of the japanese, particularly of names and terminology.)
Keep in mind also that over the years there has been a bit of a telephone game effect with Transformers. Long story short, it started with two toylines called Diaclones & Micromen that had a significant storyline & character names with them even though they had no animated series, and the toys were snatched up by Hasbro and converted into characters for Transformers. Since then the characters have gone back and forth between North America and Japan using different names and such ever since. (Optimus was originally Convoy over there and in Robots In Disguise,Armada,etc. different characters that used Convoy titles were named Optimus Prime for North America even though they were NOT Optimus in the Japanese versions at all.)
Personally I would prefer North American names, but within reason--let's not kid ourselves and call someone Optimus Prime who clearly is not.
Hey, I just saw this thread & did the same thing. To have the headmasters, masterforce, victory in R1 dvd set would be AWESOME !!!! PLEASE make them !!!!
Chalk up another vote for these getting a US release. I've watched a few bits and pieces on youtube over the years and have found them to be very interesting.
I haven't read the whole thread so I don't know if this was mentioned yet....this series has alot more pro's than con's, that being the 4th season of "Headmasters". 1st, they need to get as many original voices back on this, redub Soundwave/Galvatron/Blur's voice, etc. Call Blur, Blur again instead of Wally or Billy. Keep the score of this season, it was another unique soundtrack in between the scenes. More strengths, the battle "stills" that are even better in "Masterforce"
Now...the plot of this season was criticized by alot of people, but I thought it at least had a lot of decent continuity with things like the "power packs" and involving the "asteroid belt" & Mars. I have the UK DVD too, and it really doesn't seem to be fully remastered as much as even season 3. If the latest season 3 release does well, maybe it will be profitable to do these, and what's really going to sell this more, again, like I said before, the original voices need to be added, especially Soundwave & Galvatron, and even Zarak more like a Wizard of Oz voice.
You Shout people seem to be working this out at in a affordable way. But first thing's first, listen to what I posted, the original voices need to be added to really launch this, and then Masterforce & Zone with improved dubs. This whole series after the cancellation in US is dissed by pure anime fans, but I think you're starting to realize this might be a profitable venture afterall, but it's critical you redub this with quality voices, and just a little more remastering. Then you just might have a money maker on your hands because the season 3 Rhino DVD seems to sell for a lot of money still.
Also, another plus on this series, was the development of Daniel's character. A con was the awkward face turn of Sixshot, but still kind of interesting. Another con, the "friendship" power of the 4 Headmasters killing Galvatron scene was criticized a lot, but I thought appropriate after Sixshot killed Magnus which was a decent battle scene. There were a lot more Predacons & Terrorcons here, which a lot of old school fans wanted to see more of.
There was also interesting tension among the Autobots between the Targetmasters & Headmasters when they came and even between Chromedome & Highbrow.
I found it ironic, in the intro, Chromedome was covering "Hot Rod" where Optimus couldn't in the movie. That emphasizes how much the 4 Headmasters were the main warriors in this season.
Brian,
Produce Beast Wars Transformers on DVD in a complete series set with all 52 episodes in three seasons along with more special features of World Exclusive Creator Commentaries and interviews: Cast and crew including Story editors, voice actors, writers, directors and animators Episode guide booklets with comic inserts and essays Character profiles, Toy Galleries and Commercials Deleted Scenes, Outtakes, Animatics and 3D Test shots Making of BEAST WARS documentary David Kaye (Megatron) and Garry Chalk (Optimus) Convention Panels with a remastered high def transfer. I am interested in Beast Wars Transformers. When will Hasbro and Shout! factory release Beast Wars Transformers on DVD in Complete Series Set? Is Beast Wars Transformers being worked on by Hasbro and Shout! Factory? I would like to hear an announcement on Beast Wars Transformers: The Complete Series DVD to be released. Thank you.
I'm a huge fan of Shout! Factory's previous releases, but it wasn't until I stumbled across this thread that I felt the need to register in these forums.
Yes, please bring over the Takara trilogy.
Yes, please produce a new English dub, if it is within any kind of feasible budget.
Yes, please bring over the Beast Wars II and Beast Wars Neo series and films.
I would instantly buy any and/or all of these if they were made available.
Hey Brian, I know you're busy (judging from a comment I saw you make on the C.O.P.S. thread), but any news on these being released? Can you at least let us know if you've brought this to the Acquisition team? I'm a proud owner of both your G.I. Joe footlocker and Transformers Matrix of Leadership edition sets. I'm in agreement with the majority of the posts that I've seen that I would snatch these up with 4 caveats (a 5th as a bonus)
1. The video quality be remastered - I have nothing to judge this by as I don't own any of the international releases, but something in scale with the budget you spent on the Matrix of Leadership box set.
2. Quality English dubbing* - Whether it makes me a true fan or not, I'm one of those people that CAN'T sit through foreign language dialogue while reading what it is saying for anything more than novelty parts by bit characters in movies/shows (in other words, not full episodes). I would absolutely request as much be done/spent within reason on solid American voice talent for this set.
3. G1 type audio track - I've read a few posts of people that request a new audio track. Again I have no basis as I haven't watched any of the original Japanese episodes, but redoing any audio tracks that don't seem to fit with the U.S. show, at the very least for Headmasters which is a direct continuation of Season 4, would be a nice-to-have. This one, however, wouldn't be a complete deal breakder for me.
4. LOTS of extras - The obvious being the Zone episode I've read about that seems to not be on most releases. Other than that, any toy commercials, gallery of Hasbro & Takara toys (by far what I'd want the most)/card backs/packaged catalogues/retail toy catalogues, character profile books, etc like what was provided in the above mentioned box sets would be especially welcomed.
5* - This has to do with #2. It would be a REALLY big 'Nice to Have' for Welker and Cullen to come back for whatever episodes their respective characters they voiced from the U.S. series. It sounds like not very many, so they wouldn't need to be commissioned for many episodes. Also not sure if someone mentioned above (someone mentioned Grimlock in an example but I haven't read up to see if he's actually in any of the three series) but I would add trying to obtain Gregg Berger to this list as well for his (Grimlock's) voice as his voice work is one of the main reason's that character is as memorable as he is.
Again, 1 and 2 would be the only considerable deal breakers, but I would hope at least 1-4 would be heavily considered and budgeted for if considering this release.
I can pretty much guarantee this wouldn't be an option. It was mentioned in the Transformers thread about the lack of closed captioning on the sets as the cost was too prohibitive for their budget and given the resources necessary for a complete dubbing of 100+ episodes, that would cost way more than closed captioning.
If such a set ever sees the light of day, I would be really happy with the video looking as best it could (the G1 episodes had the benefit, if I am not mistaken, of masters previously remastered by Rhino) with the option to turn subtitles on or off. I can do without the existing dub as I really do not need to know what Fortress Maximus did to himself.
----- Original Post -----
by Grune_The_Destroyer at 8/10/2010 9:09:59 PM
2. Quality English dubbing* - Whether it makes me a true fan or not, I'm one of those people that CAN'T sit through foreign language dialogue while reading what it is saying for anything more than novelty parts by bit characters in movies/shows (in other words, not full episodes). I would absolutely request as much be done/spent within reason on solid American voice talent for this set.
As for the suggestions, I agree that would be the ultimate set. There's one thing to really consider, though. Since this would essentially be a Japanese import, meaning only that there is no established mainstream audience; only hardcore fans of Transformers, we probably wouldn't be expecting a HUGE number of sales. That means the production costs would have to be relatively low to justify producing the sets.
If a reasonable dub already existed, we could probably get a hold of that. If there was a fan dub that the Transformers fandom mutually agreed was the best, we could probably get that. But there's no chance we'd be able to produce all-new English language dubs, especially with the original cast. Name voice talent can charge upward of $10,000 just for making an appearance! Regardless of the number of episodes, we just wouldn't be able to afford the likes of Peter Cullen and Frank Welker on a professional level. The audience for Japanese animated series just isn't big enough. And I say that with the knowledge that Go Lion--the animated series that originally spawned the American Voltron--didn't sell very well when it was brought to the U.S., either.
This also applies to remastering episodes. The fewer we expect to sell, the lower the costs have to be. And remastering original film elements is insanely expensive. You can do it to a feature film that runs 90-120 minutes without cringing too badly. But doing several 22-24-minute episodes is PAINFUL to the wallet. I'm afraid this would be an impossibility.
Zone and scramble city have good fandubs. All three shows have fandubs however they are not the best in the world. I wouldn't care if we don't get the original va's. If it's cheaper to do unknowns then use them. Masterforce and victory are more or less new transformers so you won't needs most of the originals. I would love to get the classic voices to but it's to high price then hire new voices.
It's better then no release at all. I bet some transformers fans would offer to help you dub the show for free if it gets the show on dvd.
Yes, big name voice actors are out-of-reach. But even no names who belong to the union are incredibly expensive. And dubbing is a very lengthy process.
Just to be clear: Shout! Factory will NOT be producing our own dubs of these series, if we ever do obtain these rights.
Now, you see our dilemma. Would the Japanese language tracks sell the series well enough? We don't know.
Please know that subs are fine. A lot of us only want the original Japanese anyway.
Above you mentioned sales of GoLion not being all that great. It's not really a good example as it's only an original version of what was the Voltron series. With Transformers, it's all new to the US. That's kind of a big selling point. US G1 really is only half the story.... Japanese TF Headmasters, MasterForce, and Victory could be sold as the second half of G1 never before seen in the US.... "Now see the rest of G1"
Will the Japanese series sell as well as US G1? I'd guess the answer is no. But, maybe not that much less. Who really bought the Shout! G1 sets? General to hardcore Transformers fans. And, not all of the fan base bought them as an upgrade from their old Rhino sets. So there are some fewer sets sold right there. So potentially for the Japanese episodes, there is an even larger pool of possible buyers.
Plus, any DVD with the Transformers name on it is going to sell well.
Yeah. You could just put the subs and "star tv" dub and that will be fine. Throw in some japan commercials and the big book of masterforce for extras. We don't need a new dub if it's to high. you could use the zone fandub however. It's one of the better fandubs out there.
GoLion was used as an example only because it was a good example of a Japanese "novelty" to the majority of Americans that knew of its existence. Something that spawned a popular TV series stateside, but had never been seen by American audiences up until that point. The novelty, sadly, didn't pan out with high DVD sales. In this case, the three Takara series are also novelties.
Like it or not, with the exception of hardcore fans and collectors, most of the people that grew up with G1 have grown past the stage of needing to own this stuff on DVD and Blu-ray. Others feel the nostalgic tug and want to own a piece of their childhood. Others want to show their own kids the cartoons they grew up with. Others are hardcore G1 fans that believe G1 died with the Sunbow series. Only a tiny fraction of the original Transformers audience even know of the existence of a simultaneous Japanese series. And without the familiar and comforting appearances and voices of their favorite Transformers, most of those people will either look at the set and think it's a NEW series or just choose to put the sets back onto the retail shelves where they found them, rather than purchase them. It's not meant as a slight to the series. It's not meant as a slight to the Japanese. But unless you're a fan that has to own everything, most people in the United States don't feel the need to own a Japanese continuation of a series that is animated so drastically differently and features a different voice cast or even subtitles.
Sadly, as the decades have gone on, I think it's painfully obvious that Americans don't like to read their screens. American remakes of movies that are perfectly fine, like Ringu or even the more recent Let the Right One In--a beautiful movie that requires no remake, if you'd just take the time to sit down and read the subtitles--have proven time and time again that Americans generally don't have that kind of patience. So to throw a couple of box sets out there that potentially only have the Japanese language tracks and differ so drastically from the familiar look and feel of the Sunbow series is quite the risk.
I know there's an audience out there. But it MUST be acknowledged that it's a TINY audience, compared to the general Transformers fandom. Most people don't want to watch Japanese cartoons for reasons outside of the simple novelty. And novelties tend to get old, when they require money to be laid out.
We won't sell nearly as many of these as we sold of the original G1 sets. It's a simple, but true fact. Most people have no nostalgic love or context for the Japanese series. And that doesn't usually translate into mega-sales. If we do acquire the Takara collection, we'll know this going in and we'll be prepared. Our expectations won't be nearly as high as they were when we acquired G1. But neither will our budgets.
This is the definition of a "cult" set of DVDs made solely for the fans.
Yeah, but kids typically don't spend the money. Parents do. And if a kid picked up a Japanese animated series with subtitles by mistake, parents could very easily see themselves returning that to the store pretty quickly. Like I said, it's a risky proposition. One I'm thrilled to get the chance to tackle. But risky, nonetheless.
Yeah I got the set, watched most f it and then on-sold it, its pretty awful.. I dont think it would sell that well.
----- Original Post -----
by gaastra at 1/31/2010 6:51:09 PM
What would it take to get the takara shows (headmasters, masterforce, victory, zone) a release in america? UK and au both have it and america gets nothing. Is there anyway at all to get a r1 release? How about selling a try-out dvd on shouts website? You could include the first episode of all three shows. These shows need a R1 release.
I have been visiting these forums and buying quite a few Shout Factory! releases which i can't get in my own country (New Zealand) for quite awhile. I couldn't help but notice this section of the forum since i am a big Transformers fan. In case no one has mentioned it yet, Madman Entertainment which distributes in Australia and New Zealand, who have a much smaller populace and fanbase for cartoons and anime in general released each set individually and now you can get the whole Takara collection in an artbox which holds the three fat-packs.
It includes the Zone OVA and the Japanese toy catalogues, adverts, art and character bios and an episode guide booklet. As well as the continuation of Zone in manga format on the discs. They also included the horrible english dub as an option, but the main audio track is Japanese with subs, with an option to have the subs use the english transformer character names or the Japanese ones.
The same company also released Beast Wars in season fat-packs with a fancy shiny slipcase, and now have a complete set with all three fat-packs in an artbox. It was an anniversary release with interviews, documentarys, 3d animatic tests, outtakes, toy catalogues, adverts and character bios, episode guide booklet etc
Now im not trying to advertise for them, what i am getting at is that if Australia and New Zealand and a small by other countries standards company can sell sets like that, and make enough out of each set to bother repackaging them in new artboxes later on (which btw have new commissioned artwork by the folks that do the comic books, on both the individual season fat-packs and the artbox itself). Now i am not sure if being a bigger country you need to pay more to license a series or what not but i am pretty sure that in a big country like the USA you could sell enough of each series to make a profit.
P.S If you guys ever do a Beast Wars II or Neo set, or get the rights to the original Japanese versions of Micron Legend, Super-Link or Galaxy Force. Or any of the other Transformers series that got butchered in the States as far as editing goes, then i will love you long time No one anywhere outside Japan that i know of has released any of the above with the original Japanese language track or bilingual, you could be the first!
Yeah im from NZ, thats the series I got and on-sold
----- Original Post -----
by TenkoTAiLS at 8/20/2010 1:37:47 AM
I have been visiting these forums and buying quite a few Shout Factory! releases which i can't get in my own country (New Zealand) for quite awhile. I couldn't help but notice this section of the forum since i am a big Transformers fan. In case no one has mentioned it yet, Madman Entertainment which distributes in Australia and New Zealand, who have a much smaller populace and fanbase for cartoons and anime in general released each set individually and now you can get the whole Takara collection in an artbox which holds the three fat-packs.
It includes the Zone OVA and the Japanese toy catalogues, adverts, art and character bios and an episode guide booklet. As well as the continuation of Zone in manga format on the discs. They also included the horrible english dub as an option, but the main audio track is Japanese with subs, with an option to have the subs use the english transformer character names or the Japanese ones.
The same company also released Beast Wars in season fat-packs with a fancy shiny slipcase, and now have a complete set with all three fat-packs in an artbox. It was an anniversary release with interviews, documentarys, 3d animatic tests, outtakes, toy catalogues, adverts and character bios, episode guide booklet etc
Now im not trying to advertise for them, what i am getting at is that if Australia and New Zealand and a small by other countries standards company can sell sets like that, and make enough out of each set to bother repackaging them in new artboxes later on (which btw have new commissioned artwork by the folks that do the comic books, on both the individual season fat-packs and the artbox itself). Now i am not sure if being a bigger country you need to pay more to license a series or what not but i am pretty sure that in a big country like the USA you could sell enough of each series to make a profit.
P.S If you guys ever do a Beast Wars II or Neo set, or get the rights to the original Japanese versions of Micron Legend, Super-Link or Galaxy Force. Or any of the other Transformers series that got butchered in the States as far as editing goes, then i will love you long time No one anywhere outside Japan that i know of has released any of the above with the original Japanese language track or bilingual, you could be the first!
Speaking for myself, if it looked and sounded as good as the Metrodome sets, with the option of having subtitles on or off, I would definitely buy it. Unfortunately, Transformers fans are one of the most fickle bunch of fans out there, so it is most definitely a gamble with something like this.
----- Original Post -----
by B Ward at 8/19/2010 11:37:10 AM
Now, you see our dilemma. Would the Japanese language tracks sell the series well enough? We don't know.
I would buy them as well. I'm a huge DVD and cartoon aficionado, so they would be nice in my collection of cartoon series.
I would also love to see SHOUT release the DIC version of G.I. Joe (yes I liked that series), just for continuity sake and to say I have all of the G.I. Joe cartoons.
Other cartoons I would love to see on DVD -
- Bucky O' Hare
- Earthworm Jim (awesome show)
- Mortal Kombat: Defenders of the Realm
- M.A.S.K.
- Transformers: Robots in Disguise (Car Robots)
But yes, I would buy any new TF cartoon released as DVD sets... Maybe SHOUT can also bring those who never got Armada, that series, so we can get those.
----- Original Post -----
by B Ward at 8/19/2010 3:30:57 PM
Yeah, but kids typically don't spend the money. Parents do. And if a kid picked up a Japanese animated series with subtitles by mistake, parents could very easily see themselves returning that to the store pretty quickly. Like I said, it's a risky proposition. One I'm thrilled to get the chance to tackle. But risky, nonetheless.
Brian
Follow me on Twitter! (@BWard028)
I hate to be Danny Downer, but it just doesn't seem like Shout Factory is ready to tackle this set. Brian, while I do agree with you this will appeal to a smaller set of hardcore fans, the Transformer fanbase is one of the largest out there for any 80s property, rivaled probably only by G.I. Joe. So even a hardcore subset of that fanbase is larger than some shows like Jayce, Inhumanoids, etc. It probably isn't your intent, but just from your tone it sounds like you're making it out like only a couple of hundred people around the world know of its existence.
As you also said in a previous post, most Americans won't sit and read subtitles which is absolutely true for me and most everyone I know. This set would almost absolutely need to be re-dubbed, or at least be certain the dubbing on the existing DVD set that you'd most likely be using (either Metrodome or Madman) is touched up to where there's little to no dipping in volume and audio quality. I also think you're chopping off your finger to save your hand by not considering doing a fresh dubbing on this. I know you guys feel you were burned by the fans on Jayce, but Transformers is a whole different monster.
Don't get me wrong Brian, I like what Shout has put out with C.O.P.S., Transformers, and G.I. Joe, and ultimately you know your sales projections and budget, but I think you're making a mistake by not doing a fresh dubbing with better voice actors (again just based on what I've read on here and elsewhere, not based on my own viewing), and would absolutely be making an even bigger mistake by only releasing the series with subtitles and no dubbing at all.
In my personal opinion, it just sounds like Shout isn't ready to consider tackling this series and, perhaps would be best to revisit a few years down the road when and if Shout as a company has grown and would be able to afford a bigger budget and a bigger risk towards a series like this
I'm aware that there are more than a couple hundred people around the world, but keep in mind that my concern is ONLY with fans in North America. And I'll go out on a limb by saying that you're still only going to get the hardest core of the bunch buying the sets. I love Transformers. Love it. And, yet, I don't think this would be a no-brainer for me. I've seen all three of the Takara series and I just don't know that I love the American franchise enough to warrant the Japanese series an absolute must-have. And the fact that you're talking about a subtitled series makes it even less appealing for folks, yourself included.
As for cutting off the finger... It would cost us in the ballpark of $50-75,000 to do a new dub of this series. That's just not financially responsible for a company releasing a seriously niche title. I don't care who you ask (because the internet tends to only be frequented by the loudest of the fans, not the bulk of them), we'd never sell enough of these to pay for production of the DVDs AND a new dub. It just can't happen.
We're certainly ready to consider it tackling it. Wouldn't be having this conversation otherwise. But we're also being realistic, knowing fan bases tend to be overly optimistic. Just letting you guys know what one should expect, should Shout! Factory pick this title up.
Even though this is odd coming from me, as I consider myself a dubbie in terms of my viewing preferences, I wouldn't want a dub of the Takara series. The dub presented on the Metrodome set was more of a curiosity to see just how bad it was, I don't see any point in including it as it's an incredibly jarring change coming from the likes of Peter Cullen and Frank Welker.
I can totally understand where Brian is coming from, especially with the Mr. Belvedere sets not doing as well as hoped and that show has had far more exposure in North America than the Takara Transformers. Furthermore, with the Transformers fandom so volatile, it's difficult to even hazard a guess as to whether people would pick up the set. There are fans who absolutely loathe the Sunbow series, so anything connected to it would be a turn-off for them. However, if Shout were able to plaster Simon Furman's name all over it, the Furmanites would sure come running.
While I already own the Metrodome sets, the fact that they are PAL format reduces the amount of play they could get as it limits my ability to watch them to when I'm on the computer and watching stuff isn't what I generally use my computer for. An NTSC set would remedy that situation quite satisfactorily should it come to pass.
The startv dub should be on the dvds. Yes they are bad but they are a english dub. Sometimes i like to watch them. Plus the masterforce dub wasn't as bad as headmasters and it was the one not on the uk dvds! At least with the star tv dub you can put "english dub" on the box. It's better then nothing.
re: "It would cost us in the ballpark of $50-75,000 to do a new dub of this series...we'd never sell enough of these to pay for production of the DVDs AND a new dub. It just can't happen."
I have to agree with Brian here. I don't think people have an idea of just what the REAL numbers are about sell-through of TV-DVD titles. Heck, I'm the "news guy" at TVShowsOnDVD, and even I didn't actually know what those numbers were like until a couple of months ago, when an industry source (no, not anybody at Shout!) provided me with a few examples of some big-name titles. As a studio employee, I'm not sure if Brian is able to talk about the "real numbers" like this (even when it's from studios other than his own), but since nobody has told me that I'm not not allowed pass this stuff along, I'm happy to relay the eye-opening info in some round numbers:
Universal's 11/16/04 release of Buck Rogers - The Complete Series (with Gil Gerard) didn't even make it to 50,000 copies sold, as of this past summer. Closer to home for Shout! Factory, the original Rhino release on 6/20/00 of G.I. Joe: The Movie sold a hair over 80,000 copies. And Sony's 5/9/06 release of The Facts of Life - Seasons 1 & 2 sold a few thousand copies fewer than 70,000 copies. CBS/Paramount's 10/16/07 release of MacGyver - The Complete Series has sold fewer than 10,000 copies. Yes, you read that right! But Universal's Miami Vice - The Complete Series (11/13/07) clocks in a bit more, at closer to 15,000 copies sold. And finally, Universal gets picked on one more time (sorry!), because their Season 1 set of the Bixby/Ferrigno series The Incredible Hulk, released on 7/18/06, has barely passed 40,000 copies that have changed hands from retailers to consumers.
It's not all bad news, though. Warner's 2/8/05 release of Full House - Season 1 sold in excess of 350,000 copies. A show Brian likes, The Wire - The Complete Series, has been on the market less than 2 years (since 12/9/08), and is somewhere in the more-than-80,000-copies range, so it will probably hit the six-digit mark before long. Even the first DVD release of iCarly is clocking in around 100,000 copies! But that's just a few exceptions, unfortunately...at least in the context of the information I was given. I have to depend on that, though, since I don't have access to the full range of information on industry sales.
So, now, how many copies of the Takara Transformers sets do you think Shout! could really sell? Enough to pay for a $50,000 to $75,000 dub? Mmmmm...remotely possible, I suppose, especially if advertised as a "new, never-released-in-the-USA chapter in the Transformers history". But yeah, realistically, the answer is "probably not."
----- Original Post -----
by B Ward at 8/31/2010 11:24:29 AM
I'm aware that there are more than a couple hundred people around the world, but keep in mind that my concern is ONLY with fans in North America. And I'll go out on a limb by saying that you're still only going to get the hardest core of the bunch buying the sets. I love Transformers. Love it. And, yet, I don't think this would be a no-brainer for me. I've seen all three of the Takara series and I just don't know that I love the American franchise enough to warrant the Japanese series an absolute must-have. And the fact that you're talking about a subtitled series makes it even less appealing for folks, yourself included.
As for cutting off the finger... It would cost us in the ballpark of $50-75,000 to do a new dub of this series. That's just not financially responsible for a company releasing a seriously niche title. I don't care who you ask (because the internet tends to only be frequented by the loudest of the fans, not the bulk of them), we'd never sell enough of these to pay for production of the DVDs AND a new dub. It just can't happen.
David, those numbers are painfully accurate and, sadly, not even close to being surprising. People talk about the "hundreds of thousands" and even "millions" of fans out there. I'll tell ya', though. Those hundreds of thousands and millions of fans sure don't buy DVDs. But that's also why we can afford to sell fewer. Our production costs are lower than a studios. So we'll sell the same numbers, but make more because we spent less. Still... Less than 10,000 of ANYTHING makes it hard to justify spending money on production.
I dont see what te bog deal is, they are readily available other places in the world, just order one in, they are not that expensive and its not like we live in barbaric times where zoning is actually an issue anymore.
Is it possible to find Transformers fans who are also voice actors? DrSmoov ( http://drsmoov.com/ ) has done a number of YouTube videos where he performs several characters from the original cartoon. They're not perfect, but they are very good. I can't speak for him, but I imagine a Transformers fan with acting skills would jump at the opportunity to be involved in a Shout! Factory redub of the Takara series. The publicity and professional experience might be reasons enough to forgo a large salary.
I am, by far, no expert on the ADR process but I would imagine the salary of the voice actors would actually be the least expensive part of the procedure. While it's conceivable to find voice actors who would participate out of love for Transformers, there are numerous other personnel and services involved which wouldn't be open to the idea of reduced pay for their time and labour in order to fit under Shout!'s budget.
Yeah, you still have to book time in the studio, mix the sessions with the music and sound effects (and that's even assuming you have the music and sound effects on separate tracks from the original Japanese audio), lay it down on the master...
ADR is expensive and time consuming. The actors are, in fact, the least of our worries.
I know it'd be harder to sell a subtitled-only series (especially one as old as the Takara show) but I think that's probably the best route. Maybe an online-only limited release or some sort of burn-on-demand title?
Wow...I'm not generally one to besmirch the fanbase of one thing over another, but those numbers for Full House and iCarly are....depressing, to say the least. Just the simple fact that such blatantly corporate created pap sells THOSE kinds of numbers, while shows with a vastly superior calibre of acting, writing and overall production value barely scrape by, well, is a pretty sad comment on the state of our society and the standards the vast majority clearly set for their entertainment. Very sad.
Stepping down from the soapbox and getting back to Transformers: The Takara Generation, Shout Select, anyone? It's looking like this is the only way it can be realistically done, and that's fine by me as long we get it in some form for Region 1.
And no, I'd rather not import the PAL-format version. While Region coding isn't an issue, video standard is. It's a common misconception that the only issue with foreign releases is the Region coding. It's not. Japan uses NTSC, same as North America. For the Region 2 releases, the NTSC video will have been converted to PAL. So to watch them here, would mean taking those PAL DVDs, and playing them through a Region-free player that also does on the fly PAL to NTSC conversion. Result? PAL Speed-up, anyone? Not to mention a lot of image stuttering as those on the fly conversions aren't that great to begin with. They let you watch stuff, sure, but it doesn't hold a candle to a proper manual conversion. No thanks. I'd rather just have a native NTSC release that is made straight from the original NTSC masters, rather than a NTSC-PAL-NTSC conversion that will, by the very nature of cross-standards-conversion, be inferior in quality. If I wanted the Region 2 release, I would have it by now. I don't, so I don't.
The Multimedia Chronicles and more:
http://www.zaranyzerak.com
If I wanted the Region 2 release, I would have it by now. I don't, so I don't.
Amen. I've been very tempted to buy them on several occasions myself but have decided not to for many of the reasons you mention. I have a region-free player that can convert on the fly but I would much prefer a straight up NTSC release rather than putting up with stutter. I can handle that watching a 2 hour movie, but to put up with it for an entire series watched in close succession, let alone 3 and a special; I don't think I have that type of fortitude.
Also, should Shout bring these 3 series over and they do well, it would be awesome for them to be, to my knowledge, the first people to bring out Beast Wars II and Neo to an English audience.
Selling them on your site sounds like a good idea. Put subtitles and the star tv dub and throw in some japan toy commercials and the zone fandub and subtitles version.
Maybe a fan commentary for some of the episodes as a bonus and the book of masterforce special on the masterforce set.
Okay, now I don't mean to go off-topic in this thread, and come off as mean, but there are a few things that Manic said about Mr. Belvedere that I'd like to get off my chest:
First off, he said that none of the sets released so far did as well as Shout! hoped they would. WRONG! At least the first set had to have sold well, otherwise why would Shout! consider releasing the third season?
Secondly he said that Mr. Belvedere had FAR more exposure than the Transformers Takara shows ever did. WRONG AGAIN! Mr. Belvedere barely had any syndication. In fact, very few people are aware that it ever was in syndication, because not every FOX station the U.S. carried it, and those that did either shafted it into early morning timeslots, or aired it in a very sporadic fashion. Hardly what I'd call "FAR more exposure".
And I wouldn't be surprised if Manic is one of those gloom and doom people who think Shout! will never release the final two seasons of Mr. Belvedere for all eternity.
zaxxar, I would appreciate it would provide accurate statements before you attack me. Obviously the first Belvedere set did well enough to see a release for the third season, but because of the sales numbers, retailers didn't want the title on their shelves so Shout!, being the consumer friendly company they are, went ahead and released season four Direct to Consumer.
FACT - I pre-ordered Mr. Belvedere Season Four the day pre-orders were opened and, if we go by what has been said in the Mr. Belvedere threads, I am one of less than one thousand people who did so. So, obviously, the sales of Mr. Belvedere aren't what we would have hoped. As for your assumption of my stance of Mr. Belvedere, I'm patiently waiting for the final two seasons to be released.
I like Mr. Belvedere as much as the next guy but, face facts, if it were any company other than Shout! do you honestly believe we would have seen season four on DVD, especially with the production quality they put into it? I want seasons five and six as much as every other Mr. Belvedere fan and will even pre-order it the moment the option opens up, but I'm not going to cry and moan that it's taking too long or that Shout! has abandoned the series. Most DVD collections take a year between releases, we had three releases in less than a year. The doomsayers are all of the Chicken Littles who think the lack of an immediate announcement for season five is clear and definitive proof the series has been abandoned. So, I would rather not participate in a thread which is just full of "release seasons five and six!"/"release the last seasons already" type of posts.
Secondly, I said Mr. Belvedere had far more exposure in North America (which includes more than just the US, there's also Canada and Mexico) than the Takara Transformers series. I'm a big Transformers fan and I had never even heard of the Takara episodes before I discovered their existence online. Mr. Belvedere may not be in syndication now, but it was for quite some time in the nineties. By the way, you do realize "syndication" means the show isn't tethered to a network, right?
The Takara Transformers, on the other hand, had ZERO exposure on anything except perhaps premium specialty channels. Thus, Mr. Belvedere definitely had far more exposure in North America. FACT.
It will be a hard sell for even those who consider themselves to be hardcore Transformers fans. Go over to the IDW Publishing forums and you will see people who will only buy comics if they are written by Simon Furman or they will refuse to buy anything by Shane McCarthy, demanding a second ongoing title written by Simon Furman to supplant the current ongoing written by Mike Costa because it isn't how they want the story to be.
Sure, they say they will support a release of the Takara Transformers, but as numerous members on the IDW forums opt to download the comics instead of actually buying them, it's a case of I will believe it when I see it. So, while I'm a fan of both Mr. Belvedere and Transformers, I don't let my affection for both entities blind me to reality. I want them both and I would buy both without hesitation if given the chance.
Hopefully that made things just a little clearer for you.
----- Original Post -----
by zaxxar at 9/23/2010 8:25:58 AM
Okay, now I don't mean to go off-topic in this thread, and come off as mean, but there are a few things that Manic said about Mr. Belvedere that I'd like to get off my chest:
First off, he said that none of the sets released so far did as well as Shout! hoped they would. WRONG! At least the first set had to have sold well, otherwise why would Shout! consider releasing the third season?
Secondly he said that Mr. Belvedere had FAR more exposure than the Transformers Takara shows ever did. WRONG AGAIN! Mr. Belvedere barely had any syndication. In fact, very few people are aware that it ever was in syndication, because not every FOX station the U.S. carried it, and those that did either shafted it into early morning timeslots, or aired it in a very sporadic fashion. Hardly what I'd call "FAR more exposure".
And I wouldn't be surprised if Manic is one of those gloom and doom people who think Shout! will never release the final two seasons of Mr. Belvedere for all eternity.
Manic, I'm sorry for attacking you. I was just going through the motions at the time. I too am patiently waiting for the final two seasons to be released. Forgive me?
I'll throw in my vote for a SF DVD set. I have the Metrodome box set and was disappointed that Headmasters was the only one with the English dub, plus a few episodes actually had the Audio/Video fall out of sync. I was wondering, are those Shout Select titles (MST3K) a pressed DVD or a MOD DVDR? I suppose if they are DVDRs I wouldn't mind a Takara TF version then. I have an all-region DVD excellent for R2 and DVDRs.
This is a tough one and polling here doesn't even get close to an accurate estimate as geeks of the franchise (like me) are a bit over enthusiastic.
For one region free players are a dime a dozen (I've bought quite a few) for another accessibility to region free discs from China isn't hard (got the full series of Cowboy bebop this way and it had the dub track and it was licensed). So that's not a problem for geeks.
The problem is more common folk. Dubbed would be the only route. I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Some nostalgic people that don't geek over the universe would buy it. Others would pass by it. Not to mention it has to be time right with the release of the new movie. The movies showed spikes in toys (vintage and new) sales after each release. Spike because the sales start falling off after a month or two.
Is a proof of product market testing sampler dvd possible at least? Or ad filled dvds asking Hasbro or toysrus to foot the dub bill for ads or something special in the dvd?
cross-posting this from the "Definitive" Transformers thread:
Okay, there's now a Facebook page for "Transformers Season 5 DVD":
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Transformers-Season-5-DVD/136375276420404?v=wall&filter=1
"This page serves as a request to Hasbro to get the original survivng Voice Actors back, and put a DVD together that picks up where Generation 1 TRANSFORMERS left off."
Some comments posted so far are in favor of a brand-new direct-to-video production a la the recent DC Comics features (Superman: Doomsday and so forth), and other comments seem to point toward the Takara material using the official voice cast from the original G1 series (ex: "I would love to see Headmasters in English the fan dub just isnt the same.").
Writer David Wise, who wrote several fan-favorite G1 episodes, even chimes in. Heck, he was the one who pointed me toward this Facebook page. I figured it ought to be passed along here...
Before shout does anything else with transformers the should put the movie back in print. It blows my mind why people should have to pay over $100 for a used copy. Even a bare bones disc would be nice. You Don't give me enough credit jullian!
-snivley, the doomsday project
So there's no chance of paramount putting it out? I don't know why they would just let it rot on the shelf if it's a proven money maker. You Don't give me enough credit jullian!
-snivley, the doomsday project
If doing a new dub with original or fan voice actors is impossible, would it be possible to create a music-only audio track? I'd consider purchasing a set that had a good Western subtitle option (i.e. Western names for characters, "me Grimlock say," etc) if I could watch it with an audio track of Vince DiCola's music from the animated movie. It would be great to have the right G1 sound effects, but if it can't be done it can't be done. I'd rather see a high quality DVD release from Shout! Factory than no DVD release at all, just because they don't have the resources to do a professional English dub.
Happy holidays!
There was a direct to video movie called "transformers hero" that would make a great extra if we ever get dvds but it may be hard to get. It's more a less a clip movie. It's the first time japan got to see clips of the 86 movie.
Oh my yes! I like where these hints might be going...could be shaping up to be yet another glorious year for TF fans! The Multimedia Chronicles and more:
http://www.zaranyzerak.com
The official English Dub was by Omni Productions, and was at some point acquired by Sunbow, and is now owned by Hasbro.
Metrodome included the English audio on the Headmasters set, but left it out on Masterforce and Victory due to space constraints. The Madman releases (Australia & NZ) include it for all three series.
The English dubs of Headmasters, Masterforce and Victory are terrible dubs. And by "terrible", I mean "amazing". They're accurate dubs, but the stilted language turns what would be a trio of boring series into quality entertainment. For many fans, not including the dub would be a dealbreaker.
As for Scramble City and Zone, there is no official English dub, so Sunbow didn't get them like they did the full series. You'd either have to do what Metrodome did and use bootleg releases as a source, or get them from Toei (which probably won't be likely)
"All right, listen up! I'm the ninja consultant for the Decepticons. My name is Sixshot." http://www.tfwiki.net - The Transformers Wiki
There was actually a FANTASTIC fan-dub of Scramble City. Would be great if that audio could be included somehow, they really did a top-notch job impersonating all the well known G1 characters, to the point where it really almost felt like a "lost" episode.
The Multimedia Chronicles and more: http://www.zaranyzerak.com
8BitStar's covered most of the major points above. The nominal masters held by Sunbow/Loonland/Hasbro have the infamous dub, and they've all had the original Japanese opening and ending credits stripped out of them. Aside from that, the in-episode footage of those masters is complete, including episode bumpers and previews for the next episode. The single DVD release of first few episodes of Maverick's English-dubbed only Headmasters, under the distribution title of "Takara Transformers" give a good idea what these basic masters are like.
When Metrodome got the license, they wanted the original Japanese soundtrack and hence obtained a new set of masters complete with the original opening and ending credits for each series. I'm not entirely convinced they officially went to Toei for these copies, since they were of rather poor picture quality and, most annoyingly, all the footage before the episode title cards was removed from each episode of Headmasters, including the lengthy recap of the Transformers' history prior to Headmasters in the first episode, featuring flashback appearances of Optimus Prime and Megatron.
Toei's own masters as seen on the Japanese DVDs aren't amazing, but the Headmasters ones are uncut and all three series' exhibit a noticeably better color balance and far less jaggies than the ones Metrodome obtained, so it would be best to use these as a basis for the video. Of course, Toei are well known for their idiosyncratic way of dealing with foriegn licensees!
The subtitles used on the R2/R4 releases were of acceptable quality, but some of the line timings varied between the R2 and R4 releases, with Headmasters faring much better on the R4 set and Masterforce's line timings being much closer on the R2 set, for instance. It's also worth noting that the Headmasters subtitles neglected to use a fully corrected version of the translations as proofed by superfan Chris McFeely.
Also, rather annoyingly, lines from one episode of Headmasters randomly appeared on another episode's subtitle track on the Metrodome release - an error which was repeated on the Madman release a couple of years later. Be good to see these two aspects finally corrected, but that depends of if you want to use the subtitle scripts as the R2s or commission your own.
If you want to go for true completeness, Victory had the main body of 38 episodes dubbed into English, and this actually extended to the six recap episodes skipped on the R2 and R4 sets, so if yiou're going the bilingual route, they could conceivably be included, even if they contain no new animation.
As for extras, the single-episode Scramble City and Zone video specials would be worth another try at obtaining, this will presumably be difficult since they aren't offered as part of the 115 episode "Takara Transformers" package. Even Sony managed to get at least the video for Scramble City, but it would be nice to get an officially-translated version with a soundtrack. Plus, Scramble City features the most recognizable Transformers cast compared to any of the other Japanese episodes if you want to maximize the tie-in to Dark of the Moon, the obvious impetus for releasing any of these series at all!
Years ago, when I was producing the original "Matrix of Leadership" set, I was sent copies of the three Takara series because one of my contacts at Hasbro wasn't entirely sure what I needed and decided to just send me everything he could get his hands on. I was grateful, because I got the opportunity to see series. But these were the Metrodome releases, so only Headmasters was dubbed. I had no idea there were English dubs for their other series, as well.
Yes all three shows were dubbed. The only ones of the three shows that didn't get a dub are some of the clip episodes and the book of masterforce special.
Like i said before, zone and scramble city have good fandubs you could use along with subtitle versions.
I know this is a long shot Brian, but would there be any chance of getting G1 voice actors back to do new dubs for all the sets? "What can I say I'm hooked"
I will buy two of each. One for myself and one for my ex-girlfriend who got me interested in Transformers.
I bought the Region 2 sets from the UK, (I have a code free DVD player) and also the RID episodes. I'd buy every Japanese-produced show you release on DVD. I seriously doubt a test market is necessary for something like this. Do an audience poll at Botcon to see I am correct.
Maybe you can go all out and also do the Japanese version of RID, Car Robot. The American version had many episodes preempted due to the September 11th terrorist attacks and some were heavily censored or not even broadcast because of sensitivities in the months following 9/11.
Very good article Dave, your site is the best there is!
As for these sets, I personally didn't like Beast Wars at all, so I wouldn't buy. I'd probably consider Takara if they were visually cleaned up a little. I'd pay double the retail if there were new dubs for Headmasters and Scramble City. I really don't have a lot of interest in Victory or Masterforce as they weren't the G1 characters anymore. But the Star TV/Omni/Hong Kong dubs were so horrible, would be so nice to have something new.
Has Brian checked out the fan dubbed Scramble City or Scramble City 2 (which was dubbed and animated from scratch!)?
I tried to check out the Scramble City and SC2 links you posted, but they don't work for me.
----- Original Post -----
by Grizzlor at 2/15/2011 5:14:24 PM
Very good article Dave, your site is the best there is!
As for these sets, I personally didn't like Beast Wars at all, so I wouldn't buy. I'd probably consider Takara if they were visually cleaned up a little. I'd pay double the retail if there were new dubs for Headmasters and Scramble City. I really don't have a lot of interest in Victory or Masterforce as they weren't the G1 characters anymore. But the Star TV/Omni/Hong Kong dubs were so horrible, would be so nice to have something new.
Has Brian checked out the fan dubbed Scramble City or Scramble City 2 (which was dubbed and animated from scratch!)?
Like another user said, I'd pay double for all three sets if they were re dubbed... Of course I will still buy them if they are Japanese with good subtitles... Like some people have mentioned some of the timing was off for the subtitles on the UK and AUS sets... I know Shout Factory won't make the same mistakes...
Sorry about the links, thought I did them correctly. Anywho, there are many fan dubs going, some going on several years in many languages. The site is www.tfcog.com and the project links are on the left of the main page. I think some of them are on You Tube also. They've been dubbing Victory, Headmasters, etc. for a while, but it's time consuming, and Headmasters had a LOT of episodes! Shows how much fans hated the Hong Kong dubs!
Scramble City was dubbed very well, with a few actual voice actors who volunteered. Scramble City 2 was of course that horrible stop motion commercial in Japan, but fans animated in G1 style with voices. It's pretty short, but very good. I think both are on YouTube somewhere too. Tons of SC 2 videos from the artist on Youtube in fact.....
www.youtube.com/user/jaseur
@Brian - Iiiiiif someone fandubs episode 1 of Headmasters and redoes it to be like an episode of short lived G1 4th season (the intro, the symbol flip scene transitions, the G1 music, G1 sound effects), would it be accepted as a fan video for a fan disc (such as the one that was part of Matrix set)? :)
What I would consider an absolute must is uncut footage, including the opening and ending credits, as seen on the Takara Collection sets from the UK. If the existing dubs are included, that's fine but please please PLEASE include the original soundtrack as well, along with optional subtitles.
If those two wishes were guaranteed, it would be an instant pre-sale where I'm concerned.
Did I also hear Beast Wars was in the works? Another instant pre-sale... provided it was released separate from Beast Machines. I want absolutely nothing to do with that particular series.
Realistically there will be no new English audio tracks for any of these shows.
The only way I could even see it realistically happening would be if Hasbor helped co fund dubs so they could air them on the Hub. Even then, it most likely would not be 'track down actors', it would be a non union studio doing it most likely with sound alikes.
The Madman sets were region free and overall good except that Masterforce only had the bad english track on 4 episodes; Victory and Headmasters have complete bad english tracks. I don't think Zone was done by that same group; I've only seen it in english with the fan track which was pretty cool!
I think Scramble City needs to be part of this set seeing as there aren't plans for a TF the Movie release. There is also an english track made by the fans that includes extra scenes (Scramble City Reloaded) to better explain the gap between season 2 and the movie as well as a Scramble City 2 with very decent animation and good engligh voice acting!
TFCog.com is a great resource for extra materials and for the fan english tracks.
If the fan made english tracks could be included, this would be the ultimate release because they are very well done!
Any news if this wil lbe released as 1 set or by series or both?
Will Zone be included as part of Victory's bonus features?
So many questions, so much excitement! I'm just glad Shout is doing this and not some other company that won't give them the care they need.
I'm still wondering if Shout would consider using the Pioneer sets as a source (particularly for Headmasters, which is butchered on Metrodome's set), as I asked in another thread.
----- Original Post -----
by xdragon at 2/24/2011 9:23:01 AM
Brian,
The Madman sets were region free and overall good except that Masterforce only had the bad english track on 4 episodes; Victory and Headmasters have complete bad english tracks. I don't think Zone was done by that same group; I've only seen it in english with the fan track which was pretty cool!
Brandon Williams bwill@cogeco.ca is very interested in helping to get you the tracks and he is one of the main contacts from tfcogs.com who is driving the english translations.
Now if we could only get Shout Factory to work on Gaiking (Daiku Maryu Gaiking) and Starvengers (Getter Robo G) from Jim Terry's Force Five from the early 1980s - my childhood collection would be complete!
Grimbot, I passed on the info to get things rolling, I wasn't suggesting that the 1 contact would just ok things, but since he is one of the main guys, he would know the people who need to be involved from the fan dub side. Sorry if my message caused any confusion or if it made it seem like the other contributers were to be left out of what ever process needs to take place. The TFCog team has done a great job and I hope some great things can come out of the 2 groups speaking.
----- Original Post -----
by Grimbot at 2/25/2011 12:32:16 PM
I know that you didn't mean that. :P I was asking to see if fan voice actors need to give their approval as well. :)
----- Original Post ----- by xdragon at 2/25/2011 12:54:06 PM
Grimbot, I passed on the info to get things rolling, I wasn't suggesting that the 1 contact would just ok things, but since he is one of the main guys, he would know the people who need to be involved from the fan dub side. Sorry if my message caused any confusion or if it made it seem like the other contributers were to be left out of what ever process needs to take place. The TFCog team has done a great job and I hope some great things can come out of the 2 groups speaking.
----- Original Post -----
by Grimbot at 2/25/2011 12:32:16 PM
And Headmaster's fandub gonna sound better than ever! :D Gonna send a demo dub to Brian in about a week. EDIT: Due to some difficulties, should be done by March 14th...
----- Original Post ----- by xdragon at 2/26/2011 3:45:38 AM
I think you're referring to the Asian dub which is found on the Madman and Metrdome releases; the fan dubs are all well done.
----- Original Post ----- by Sean at 2/25/2011 1:46:35 PM
I watched the first episode of HEADMASTERS, english dubbed version. Hilariously bad. WHEELIE and DANIEL sound like girls.
I know myself personally would love to lend my voice. I am currently Scourge in Headmasters and in the latest one Weirdwolf as well. I think the fans who are fan voice actors would love the credits at least and the ability to get them on DVD.
Brian is there any way to contact you directly I tried looking for a PM button but did not find one. I've got a site you should look at for subbs but I kind of want to talk to you about them privately.
I can be reached at DekaPrime@yahoo.com if need be.
Love with your heart, use your brain for everything else. - Captain Disillusion
Brian talked about the Headmasters cover on twitter, so I would guess at least that is coming out individually in addition to hopefully a boxset of all the shows. While I would buy a boxset of all the shows, I'm not sure if I'd buy Headmasters by itself. I already own the UK release which is region free, so the Shout set will have to have something special to it to get me to buy it.
edit: sound like they are working on the complete set, "Ha HAAA!! With five minutes to spare, I finished the packaging copy for the TRANSFORMERS: TAKARA COLLECTION! Suck it, deadlines!!"
Considering how it's an adaptation of Transformers, my own personal preference would be Autobots and Decepticons, but a good addition for any booklet included would be an explanation of the difference in names between the returning characters from the original series and their Japanese counterparts..(Optimus Prime - Convoy, Blaster - Broadcast, Scorponok - Zarak etc.)
----- Original Post (from Twitter) -----
by BWard028 at 2/25/2011 4:11 PM
Takara TRANSFORMERS fans, would you want them referred as Autobots and Decepticons? Or their Japanese monikers, Cybertrons and Destrons?
I hope we get it dubbed. I won't care for this unless it is. I dislike reading my cartoons to understand them. I don't disagree with the feature of subtitles but I know most would prefer dubbed. Steven C. Phillips
Web Designer, Voice Actor
I would prefer it to have the Japanese names but with the subtitles it would be easy to have both Japanese names and American names with the American names subtitle track being the main one so that everybody wins.
The Existing Dubs are good because they're so bad. A company that does MST3K should understand that.
Headmasters is kinda dull and slow on its own so any additiion of fun is good.
If I may suggest. Every year at Botcon for forever a group of fans puts on a MSTing of TF eps. THAT would be a fun commentary to have on an episode or two. Or record fan comments at Botcon and edit the best into a commentary.
Think outside the box with fun extras like that to liven up a dry series and turn a release that's good cause its a first into one thats good because of cool fun stuff that went into making it great.
Brian, I know redubbing the entire series would cost an insane amount of money for you guys to tackle, especially if it involved getting as many of the original Generation 1 voice actors as you could, but would of the chances of getting a few well established fan voice actors to make a new dub of the first episode as a bonus feature? Youtube users DRSMOOV and Jon3pnt0 have done some of the best voices when it comes to TF related videos and they are both professional voice actors.
Getting the original voice actors would be great and all, but extremely unlikely, but I'd be really happy with these guys even if it meant just one episode. Choosing between cake and death is easy. Choosing between GODZILLA VS MEGALON and death is not.
Shoot add them and all the fan dubbers from TFCog and we could have one awesomely authentic sounding product. Steven C. Phillips
Web Designer, Voice Actor
1. Subs (With choice of american or japan names. If only one i would want american names myself.)
2. Star tv dub
3. Fandub if the episode has one.
Plus a fan commentary on the first 3 episodes and last two episodes of headmasters. Both uk and au dvds have commentary tracks so maybe you can import those.
The battle of the planet dvds had 3 tracks also. They had subs plus 70s dub and 90s g-force dub so it's not the first time a dvd had more then one.
If you do masterforce please include book of masterforce. It fills the gap on alot of headmasters and masterforce questions. Some transformers fans have a vhs copy from japan so maybe you can get a copy of one of them.
Japan transformers commercials would be great as well.
I've got a question about the credits sequences to be included in these sets. Are they going to be the real sequences (as seen on the Metrodome "Takara Collection" including:
It's more realistic trying to get the Fan Dubbed episodes from TFCog, along with the Japanese track with English subtitles... Then getting the horrible Star Dubbed episodes... I seen the Star Dubbed version and it was horrible lol... I'm sure once Shout Factory talkes to the fandubbed actors from TFCog.com they'll agree to seeing their hard work pay off by seeing it put on dvd... And their talent recongized ya know what I mean? I seen the fan dubs and they were really good...
Speaking of intros, I hope they don't include the Headmasters epilepsy inducing intro. Should be replaced with the normal one.
----- Original Post ----- by Manic at 3/2/2011 5:01:12 PM
I've got a question about the credits sequences to be included in these sets. Are they going to be the real sequences (as seen on the Metrodome "Takara Collection" including:
I wholeheartedly agree! Same for what GrimBot said above.
----- Original Post -----
by MagicalWingLT at 3/2/2011 7:29:26 PM
It's more realistic trying to get the Fan Dubbed episodes from TFCog, along with the Japanese track with English subtitles... Then getting the horrible Star Dubbed episodes... I seen the Star Dubbed version and it was horrible lol... I'm sure once Shout Factory talkes to the fandubbed actors from TFCog.com they'll agree to seeing their hard work pay off by seeing it put on dvd... And their talent recongized ya know what I mean? I seen the fan dubs and they were really good...
I agree, The star dubbed version is awful. I am trying to get my hands on Fan dubbed version
----- Original Post -----
by MagicalWingLT at 3/2/2011 7:29:26 PM
It's more realistic trying to get the Fan Dubbed episodes from TFCog, along with the Japanese track with English subtitles... Then getting the horrible Star Dubbed episodes... I seen the Star Dubbed version and it was horrible lol... I'm sure once Shout Factory talkes to the fandubbed actors from TFCog.com they'll agree to seeing their hard work pay off by seeing it put on dvd... And their talent recongized ya know what I mean? I seen the fan dubs and they were really good...
Bad or not i want the star tv dubs on there. Like i said before the battle of the planets dvds have three audio tracks. Battle of the planets dub, g-force 80s dub and subtitles.
Headmasters can have subs, fandubs, and star tv dubs.
OK, I have read this thread a few times and felt that now is the time that I should sign up for this forum and chime in.
I have to make note about some of the things I've read on here such as how bad the Star TV dubs are. Many people know about the dubs more than they know anything about the series. They are a part of the Transformers mythos by now, to not include them is just not a good idea, people may not like them, but it is a part of the history.
Next, I do agree with Mr. Ward about not being able to justify the costs of doing a new dub, that being said, a fandub may not be the best route to go either. While it technically would be cheaper, from some of the episodes I have watched at TFCog, the audio quality is just too all over the place. Especially on Zone. While I do like the original Japanese audio, the fandub for it is just not good quality; from forced voice acting, which I do expect since it is a small group of people voicing all characters, to audio levels that are constantly changing between characters and sound effects and even some voices sounding so muddied that they are barely understandable (which may not be the fault of anything more than old equipment or the recording being too low). There really is no need to have this added on.
Now for Scramble City, the full episode with the original audio would be great to have, especially if it was from the master so I can kill my bootleg DVD I got off eBay so long ago, the fandub is slightly better than Zone's, but not worth having on a DVD. Why? Well, Simply put, its not a full episode that TFCog did, the first 10 or so minutes were cut since it was a recap of the series up to where SC was taking place. I was hoping for a full dub from them with the re-release they did, but it wasn't so, the acting was MUCH better though. I do like TFCog, just not *everything* they have done.
As for what would appeal to the widest audience possible:
-The Star TV dub that is available for all episodes possible. English dub. Enough said, and its great to have something so bad its fun included (I grew up on MST3K, sue me).
-The original audio. I am a purist and only watch anything foreign in its original language with English subs, maybe a dub if I'm just wanting background noise as I fall asleep.
-Proper subtitles. While I don't own the Metrodome or Madman sets, from what I've read, the subtitles need to be corrected, which shouldn't cost too much to do. This could also go as far as creating 2 subtitle tracks, one being a localized track (localized means American names) and another track that features the names as they are said in Japanese (such as Destrons vs Cybertrons, Prime being Convoy, etc., etc.).
-Bonus features. Commercials, episode guides (as physical booklets included in the cases), Galleries, downloadable scripts on the DVD-ROM part. Anything like that would be great.
-Full episodes of Scramble City and Zone featuring the original audio and proper subtitles.
-All material that is available on the Metrodome/ Madman sets would also be nice and maybe the cheapest and most cost-effective route to take to maximize profits and cut costs as much as possible.
I'm not sure what Mr. Ward is going to do, and I know that we all want something different, but I feel this would be the best middle-ground that people can agree on and would want to purchase.
I also have some questions for Mr. ward that I'm wanting to know:
-Will each series be released individually only or maybe as a giant box further down the road ala The Matrix of Leadership boxset?
-Will it just be Headmasters, Masterforce, and Victory? Or will you consider Beast Wars Neo and Beast Wars II? There is no official release in America for either series nor for the movie 'Lio Convoy in Imminent Danger'. If you do new subtitles for the aforementioned series, this may be a good choice to do alongside them, seeing as how bootleg DVDs with no subtitles can go for around $100 together. The only bad thing is each series was only released on VHS in Japan, I don't mind VHS quality as long as its constant (and less than $100 combined). The only exception is the movie, that was available on a Beast Wars DVD released in Japan. I can send a copy of that to you if needed for research.
-Is there anything you can let us know now? Or only after a press release officially declares that this is going forward? (Was there a press release already? I don't remember..)
-Final question is about the Beast Wars DVDs (off topic, I know, but I haven't read that thread yet): Will the full box be just seasons 1-3 or will it include Beast Machines? Is there even a plan to release a full boxset?
As an idea to expand on a Takara Collection, how about re-releasing Armada, Energon and Cybertron? Technically, they were made for Japanese audience, then dubbed for the American market. I'm not sure if Paramount still owns the rights to these, but if they no longer have the rights to TFA, then they may no longer have the rights for these.
And as for RID, the reason why we never got a DVD release in the US is because the rights are owned by Jetix, which is a subsidiary of Disney, and if Disney won't release it, there's no chance of them allowing another company to release it under contract to Disney, unless the rights were bought from them straight out.
Wow, I just realized how long my first post here was...
As for the Beast Wars Collection it will come after the Season sets he's said and it's just Beast Wars.
AS for the Takara sets I still think it would merit including Fan Dubs because that too is a piece of the history of Transformers with many people involved as there is with that. I know Grimbot has some better footage, acting and audio in his set he's demoing right now. I can agree to some extent with the above but it's just plain terrible voicing and audio.
Steven C. Phillips
Web Designer, Voice Actor
http://www.geekcastradio.com | http://www.stevencphillips.net
The only history fandubs have is just with the fans that created them, and the people who watch them, which isn't a lot really. Only a couple thousand or so people really know of and watch fandubs if I'm recalling properly. When it comes down to the general audience, fandubs really aren't synonymous with Transformers products, either official or bootleg/ imports. And with the poor quality most have, it would probably do more harm than good to have fandubs on the discs. I would be tempted to change my mind if I saw Grimbot's demo, but only if it was a consistent quality, which is what fandubs are known for not having in the first place as I mentioned above.
I'm not really for the idea of adding a new voice track of just fans as anything more than a commentary, and that actually worked out pretty well on the Sony release of TFTM and it could here as long as more than a couple fansite owners were able to join in.
Also, thanks for the information about the Beast Wars set, I didn't even see that posted in the other thread, but it also was 4AM when I read it. Now to track down Beast Machines...
Actually, it shouldn't cost anything additional other than some time. You could easily "rip" the subtitles (which are just .bmp files) off the Metrodome/Madaman DVD's and into a format you can open/edit in a plain text editor (Notepad). It would also make it extremely easy to have a second subtitle track with the localized English names.
----- Original Post -----
by IAmThePeej at 3/19/2011 12:31:27 AM
-Proper subtitles. While I don't own the Metrodome or Madman sets, from what I've read, the subtitles need to be corrected, which shouldn't cost too much to do. This could also go as far as creating 2 subtitle tracks, one being a localized track (localized means American names) and another track that features the names as they are said in Japanese (such as Destrons vs Cybertrons, Prime being Convoy, etc., etc.).
Someone will still have to be paid to do said action though, so it will still cost some money for Shout! DVD Scientists to fix the error.
(I'm just having some fun now by calling them DVD Scientists.)
----- Original Post -----
by StarTrooper at 3/19/2011 6:20:51 PM
Actually, it shouldn't cost anything additional other than some time. You could easily "rip" the subtitles (which are just .bmp files) off the Metrodome/Madaman DVD's and into a format you can open/edit in a plain text editor (Notepad). It would also make it extremely easy to have a second subtitle track with the localized English names.
----- Original Post -----
by IAmThePeej at 3/19/2011 12:31:27 AM
-Proper subtitles. While I don't own the Metrodome or Madman sets, from what I've read, the subtitles need to be corrected, which shouldn't cost too much to do. This could also go as far as creating 2 subtitle tracks, one being a localized track (localized means American names) and another track that features the names as they are said in Japanese (such as Destrons vs Cybertrons, Prime being Convoy, etc., etc.).
I usually don't double post, but for this is directly for Mr. Ward since I do not see a PM function;
IF you are including Transformers Zone in your Takara Collection, I have a few commercials, technically 2 different ones, each with a short edit and a long edit, 2 special features, but they are subtitled in Chinese and the clean opening for Zone. All of which are in VERY good quality, 640x480 to be exact. I literally just found these on my computer.
I'm sure these would be a great addition to the set(s) if needed.
"I have watched at TFCog, the audio quality is just too all over the place. Especially on Zone." - For this, dubs would be remade (at very least 1 episode for each disc due to time it takes to (re)make them) and the quality will be high. I've just completed the demo dub for Headmasters and if it gets green light by Hasbro and Shout, it'll blow your mind. BTW, it's bit unfair to criticize Zone fandub as it was one of the EARLIEST TF fandubs, done waaaay back in 2004. "There really is no need to have this added on." - There's no need to feature Star Dubs either. "and another track that features the names as they are said in Japanese" - OOH! How about having one with Hungarian names? And one with Russian names? Won't that be awesome? :D
----- Original Post ----- by IAmThePeej at 3/19/2011 12:31:27 AM
OK, I have read this thread a few times and felt that now is the time that I should sign up for this forum and chime in.
I have to make note about some of the things I've read on here such as how bad the Star TV dubs are. Many people know about the dubs more than they know anything about the series. They are a part of the Transformers mythos by now, to not include them is just not a good idea, people may not like them, but it is a part of the history.
Next, I do agree with Mr. Ward about not being able to justify the costs of doing a new dub, that being said, a fandub may not be the best route to go either. While it technically would be cheaper, from some of the episodes I have watched at TFCog, the audio quality is just too all over the place. Especially on Zone. While I do like the original Japanese audio, the fandub for it is just not good quality; from forced voice acting, which I do expect since it is a small group of people voicing all characters, to audio levels that are constantly changing between characters and sound effects and even some voices sounding so muddied that they are barely understandable (which may not be the fault of anything more than old equipment or the recording being too low). There really is no need to have this added on.
Now for Scramble City, the full episode with the original audio would be great to have, especially if it was from the master so I can kill my bootleg DVD I got off eBay so long ago, the fandub is slightly better than Zone's, but not worth having on a DVD. Why? Well, Simply put, its not a full episode that TFCog did, the first 10 or so minutes were cut since it was a recap of the series up to where SC was taking place. I was hoping for a full dub from them with the re-release they did, but it wasn't so, the acting was MUCH better though. I do like TFCog, just not *everything* they have done.
As for what would appeal to the widest audience possible:
-The Star TV dub that is available for all episodes possible. English dub. Enough said, and its great to have something so bad its fun included (I grew up on MST3K, sue me).
-The original audio. I am a purist and only watch anything foreign in its original language with English subs, maybe a dub if I'm just wanting background noise as I fall asleep.
-Proper subtitles. While I don't own the Metrodome or Madman sets, from what I've read, the subtitles need to be corrected, which shouldn't cost too much to do. This could also go as far as creating 2 subtitle tracks, one being a localized track (localized means American names) and another track that features the names as they are said in Japanese (such as Destrons vs Cybertrons, Prime being Convoy, etc., etc.).
-Bonus features. Commercials, episode guides (as physical booklets included in the cases), Galleries, downloadable scripts on the DVD-ROM part. Anything like that would be great.
-Full episodes of Scramble City and Zone featuring the original audio and proper subtitles.
-All material that is available on the Metrodome/ Madman sets would also be nice and maybe the cheapest and most cost-effective route to take to maximize profits and cut costs as much as possible.
I'm not sure what Mr. Ward is going to do, and I know that we all want something different, but I feel this would be the best middle-ground that people can agree on and would want to purchase.
I also have some questions for Mr. ward that I'm wanting to know:
-Will each series be released individually only or maybe as a giant box further down the road ala The Matrix of Leadership boxset?
-Will it just be Headmasters, Masterforce, and Victory? Or will you consider Beast Wars Neo and Beast Wars II? There is no official release in America for either series nor for the movie 'Lio Convoy in Imminent Danger'. If you do new subtitles for the aforementioned series, this may be a good choice to do alongside them, seeing as how bootleg DVDs with no subtitles can go for around $100 together. The only bad thing is each series was only released on VHS in Japan, I don't mind VHS quality as long as its constant (and less than $100 combined). The only exception is the movie, that was available on a Beast Wars DVD released in Japan. I can send a copy of that to you if needed for research.
-Is there anything you can let us know now? Or only after a press release officially declares that this is going forward? (Was there a press release already? I don't remember..)
-Final question is about the Beast Wars DVDs (off topic, I know, but I haven't read that thread yet): Will the full box be just seasons 1-3 or will it include Beast Machines? Is there even a plan to release a full boxset?
As an idea to expand on a Takara Collection, how about re-releasing Armada, Energon and Cybertron? Technically, they were made for Japanese audience, then dubbed for the American market. I'm not sure if Paramount still owns the rights to these, but if they no longer have the rights to TFA, then they may no longer have the rights for these.
And as for RID, the reason why we never got a DVD release in the US is because the rights are owned by Jetix, which is a subsidiary of Disney, and if Disney won't release it, there's no chance of them allowing another company to release it under contract to Disney, unless the rights were bought from them straight out.
Wow, I just realized how long my first post here was...
----- Original Post -----
by ZacWilliam at 3/1/2011 8:41:59 AM
Headmasters is kinda dull and slow on its own so any additiion of fun is good.
That's the thing about the Fan Dubs that are being made: there is an attempt to improve on them. The writing may have been sub-par for the original series and the English dubs turned out hilarious because of it, but there's 11 episodes of Headmasters (soon to be 12), fan-dubbed in French, that prove that improving the script allows to bring the story back to something all fans can enjoy.
So, really, a fan dub like what Grimbot has proposed would do more than just please the people that worked on it. Odds are it could also allow the fans that don't consider these series as a serious part of the canon to do so in a new light.
Most of you have liked Scramble City FVR over at TFCog, from what I just read. Well, back when the original fandub (Scramble City FV) was "Reloaded", the story was adapted to work as a bridge between season 2 and the movie. The main plot of Scramble City is kept intact, but the dialogue is written to keep that goal in mind. The "clip show" footage from the original was replaced with a clip show that attempted to allign the continuity between the Japanese material and the US material.
Hey, it was a fan experiment at the time, and it allowed the rest of the fan dub teams to learn how to articulate this stuff. Canon or not, it's still entertaining.
I'm biased because I'm involved, but the point is, in many ways, the fandubs do something the original dub of the series haven't managed to, like any decent dub of acquired animation. It's more than just "doing an English version". It's about bringing these characters back to what we know of them, fixing continuity plot holes where we can, tossing a bit of fandom fun in there... heck, sometimes, it even involves fixing animation errors , when time allows.
If any fan material is considered for these sets, a fan dub definitely is one of the expressions that should make the list. Especially considering how much the more recent stuff from TFCog has improved.
Regardless of the fact that it's "Transformers", these are anime series and if the original Japanese audio is included then it should also contain "proper" subtitle tracks with the characters being refered to by their japanese names. Japanese Transformers G1 continuity is DIFFERENT from the US. Changing the names just reeks of an attempt to shoehorn these series into the US G1 universe.
----- Original Post -----
by Grimbot at 3/25/2011 8:35:29 AM
"I have watched at TFCog, the audio quality is just too all over the place. Especially on Zone." - For this, dubs would be remade (at very least 1 episode for each disc due to time it takes to (re)make them) and the quality will be high. I've just completed the demo dub for Headmasters and if it gets green light by Hasbro and Shout, it'll blow your mind. BTW, it's bit unfair to criticize Zone fandub as it was one of the EARLIEST TF fandubs, done waaaay back in 2004. "There really is no need to have this added on." - There's no need to feature Star Dubs either. "and another track that features the names as they are said in Japanese" - OOH! How about having one with Hungarian names? And one with Russian names? Won't that be awesome? :D
But that begs the question, how is it any different from the Japanese changing names all over the place in their adaptation of Transformers? Why is it okay for Takara to change the G1 they import from the US but not the other way around? By that logic Optimus Prime should have been called Optimus Prime in Japanese, as well as Kup retaining his name, etc. While the toys were imported from various Japanese toy lines the characters and franchise of Transformers are entirely different.
I mean, they didn't even keep the same theme songs or proper opening credits, yet heaven forbid if the reverse were ever to occur. For the record, of course, I am heavily in favour of keeping an unedited Japanese soundtrack and animation. I just see it as a bit hypocritical to give the Japanese a free pass on changing whatever they like while raising pitchforks at the very notion that something as small as having the names in the subtitles be the names familiar in North America, considering this is a release catering to North America.
----- Original Post -----
by StarTrooper at 3/25/2011 10:40:18 AM
Regardless of the fact that it's "Transformers", these are anime series and if the original Japanese audio is included then it should also contain "proper" subtitle tracks with the characters being refered to by their japanese names. Japanese Transformers G1 continuity is DIFFERENT from the US. Changing the names just reeks of an attempt to shoehorn these series into the US G1 universe.
If you read a bit further down in one of my other posts, I am willing to change my mind, from what I have watched over there, the quality comment was in general about all the episodes I have watched. And as such, the quality varies greatly, I was using Zone as a comparison since I saw a few people saying how great that fandub was, when it wasn't. I'm a harsh person, all I did was make a comment in passing, if I felt like it, I can really criticize it. But I won't.
"There's no need to feature Star Dubs either."--
Yes there is. Most people who have watched Headmasters only know of the horrible English dub they heard. Its a part of the series' charm. Take that away, and you are taking away a part of the series' history. Its also a great addition for people who grew up on MST3k, poorly dubbed Godzilla and Gamera movies. The horrible dub is just a drinking/ riffing game waiting to be made (as long as the people who drink are of legal age to do so).
If anything, fan made dubs that have the sound quality of each character and sound effects all at different volumes causing constant raising and lowering of the volume as well as having parts being inaudible, which I have said my be of no one's fault except for the quality of the equipment used, that have no history with the series except to a few people who do the work has no need. Also, 2004 was barely 7 years ago, not what I would call "waaaay back in...".
"OOH! How about having one with Hungarian names? And one with Russian names? Won't that be awesome? :D"--
Hopefully you're just having some fun here, but if you're trying to be smart, read this: The original language is Japanese, as such, the subtitles should call them by the names as they are said in that language, as well as a separate track that features the American names, this way everyone wins. You don't want to watch Gantz and hear the name "Kato", but read the name "George" do you? Its the same idea with this.
Please do realize, I know that you are defensive of your work, and I do respect fandubbers for at least taking the time out of their days to do what they do. But when the quality is low, its not worth it. A lot of TFCog's dubs are like this. I would love to hear/ see the demo work you've done and as I have posted before, I'm willing to sway my opinion, I'm not hardheaded. You also do know that by saying "it'll blow your mind.", you have a high bar you just set for it. I would love for a new English track to be made, so I am hoping that you can get the green light to do so, and maybe be given the time to dub the full series for DVD release. I'm not trying to add to what could be the start of a flame war, just explaining my stance to you. Accept it as what it is, some dude on the computer voicing their opinion, which are all like buttholes, we all have them, and they all stink.
----- Original Post -----
by Grimbot at 3/25/2011 8:35:29 AM
"I have watched at TFCog, the audio quality is just too all over the place. Especially on Zone." - For this, dubs would be remade (at very least 1 episode for each disc due to time it takes to (re)make them) and the quality will be high. I've just completed the demo dub for Headmasters and if it gets green light by Hasbro and Shout, it'll blow your mind. BTW, it's bit unfair to criticize Zone fandub as it was one of the EARLIEST TF fandubs, done waaaay back in 2004. "There really is no need to have this added on." - There's no need to feature Star Dubs either. "and another track that features the names as they are said in Japanese" - OOH! How about having one with Hungarian names? And one with Russian names? Won't that be awesome? :D
While he hasn't produced a fandub of the TF Takara shows but I do know a friend of mine who could provide a servicible fandub of Headmasters, Zone, Victory, etc. He has done Studio Ghibli fandubs and a series of fandubs called Across the Universe, it';s a trilogy. He has many others, he's like a professional. Good voice actor, good director, if you want him; here's his email.
I understand, some fan dubs did have some issues with volume control. However I recently just saw a new one that was just recently made by Grimbot and it didn't have these issues. It really all depends on the knowlege to do it correctly and the software power (and knowlege of that software) to be able to apply it. Not only that, but like every thing in life, fan dubs have under taken an evolutionary process. It had to start somewhere, and like most things, there was a learning curve so some of the very first attempts really don't hold up to standards today. Since then I think they've gained alot of experience and the newer dubs that are being put out, depending on who is behind them, is overall much better.
At the very least I CAN say hands down that they are far better than any Singapore Star TV dub that originally attempted the Takara series and actually mistakenly called Blurr or Blaster names like "Billy". This was the dub that the Metronome DVDs used and it was AWEFUL.
Personally I would welcome any new fan dub. It can't be any worse than the "Billy" star TV dubs (which is the only original known english version, also in the Metrodome DVDs) and they are also improving in dub quality with every new release.
Obviously my first choice would be to have the original cast get back together for a new official english dub, but if that's impossible, then a fan dub is the next best thing and a very very good alternative. Particularly when some of the cast are actually talented voice over artists who have professional resumes and paid gigs themselves. And the best thing of it all, is it's free. Fans do it just for the love of Transformers and because it's fun for them. As a fan myself my hope is to see a whole new dub of Headmasters at the very least. I think the opportunity to see these Transformers episodes in good english like never seen before, plus the possiblity of a little bit of exposure may be all that fans who participate in the fan dubs are looking for. I've participated myelf and I can at least speak for myself when I say those things.
I thank Grimbot for sharing his new dub, which I enjoyed very much and I hope that others will have the opportunity to see it as well. I also hope they enjoy it as much as I did.
At any rate, I am very happy about the news that Shout! Factory is releasing the Takara Transformers series in the US for the very first time ever on DVD! I hope for an accurate translation in subtitles, and if it's not too much to ask a new dub somewhere here or there. I will be disgusted at the Star TV dub like I always have been. That basically ruins the experience for me. But I'm sure it'll be there some where, I just don't think it should be the primary track because it's so aweful. Hopefully there will be some time of new dub approved by Hasbro! If they can dub the Unicron Trilogy I see no reason not to give the Takara series a go especially when so many people (including some of the orignial actors who I've chatted with on FB) are just so itching to make it happen.
Thank you Brian for bringing these series on DVD to the US!
----- Original Post -----
by IAmThePeej at 3/25/2011 8:44:34 PM
If you read a bit further down in one of my other posts, I am willing to change my mind, from what I have watched over there, the quality comment was in general about all the episodes I have watched. And as such, the quality varies greatly, I was using Zone as a comparison since I saw a few people saying how great that fandub was, when it wasn't. I'm a harsh person, all I did was make a comment in passing, if I felt like it, I can really criticize it. But I won't.
"There's no need to feature Star Dubs either."--
Yes there is. Most people who have watched Headmasters only know of the horrible English dub they heard. Its a part of the series' charm. Take that away, and you are taking away a part of the series' history. Its also a great addition for people who grew up on MST3k, poorly dubbed Godzilla and Gamera movies. The horrible dub is just a drinking/ riffing game waiting to be made (as long as the people who drink are of legal age to do so).
If anything, fan made dubs that have the sound quality of each character and sound effects all at different volumes causing constant raising and lowering of the volume as well as having parts being inaudible, which I have said my be of no one's fault except for the quality of the equipment used, that have no history with the series except to a few people who do the work has no need. Also, 2004 was barely 7 years ago, not what I would call "waaaay back in...".
"OOH! How about having one with Hungarian names? And one with Russian names? Won't that be awesome? :D"--
Hopefully you're just having some fun here, but if you're trying to be smart, read this: The original language is Japanese, as such, the subtitles should call them by the names as they are said in that language, as well as a separate track that features the American names, this way everyone wins. You don't want to watch Gantz and hear the name "Kato", but read the name "George" do you? Its the same idea with this.
Please do realize, I know that you are defensive of your work, and I do respect fandubbers for at least taking the time out of their days to do what they do. But when the quality is low, its not worth it. A lot of TFCog's dubs are like this. I would love to hear/ see the demo work you've done and as I have posted before, I'm willing to sway my opinion, I'm not hardheaded. You also do know that by saying "it'll blow your mind.", you have a high bar you just set for it. I would love for a new English track to be made, so I am hoping that you can get the green light to do so, and maybe be given the time to dub the full series for DVD release. I'm not trying to add to what could be the start of a flame war, just explaining my stance to you. Accept it as what it is, some dude on the computer voicing their opinion, which are all like buttholes, we all have them, and they all stink.
----- Original Post -----
by Grimbot at 3/25/2011 8:35:29 AM
"I have watched at TFCog, the audio quality is just too all over the place. Especially on Zone." - For this, dubs would be remade (at very least 1 episode for each disc due to time it takes to (re)make them) and the quality will be high. I've just completed the demo dub for Headmasters and if it gets green light by Hasbro and Shout, it'll blow your mind. BTW, it's bit unfair to criticize Zone fandub as it was one of the EARLIEST TF fandubs, done waaaay back in 2004. "There really is no need to have this added on." - There's no need to feature Star Dubs either. "and another track that features the names as they are said in Japanese" - OOH! How about having one with Hungarian names? And one with Russian names? Won't that be awesome? :D
English subtitles, English names. I mean, did they kept US names for Japanese dub of G1? No. Neither did French, Hungarians, Russians... So why are Japanese names untouchable while anyone can do whatever they want with names in G1 cartoon?!
----- Original Post ----- by StarTrooper at 3/25/2011 10:40:18 AM
Regardless of the fact that it's "Transformers", these are anime series and if the original Japanese audio is included then it should also contain "proper" subtitle tracks with the characters being refered to by their japanese names. Japanese Transformers G1 continuity is DIFFERENT from the US. Changing the names just reeks of an attempt to shoehorn these series into the US G1 universe.
----- Original Post -----
by Grimbot at 3/25/2011 8:35:29 AM
"I have watched at TFCog, the audio quality is just too all over the place. Especially on Zone." - For this, dubs would be remade (at very least 1 episode for each disc due to time it takes to (re)make them) and the quality will be high. I've just completed the demo dub for Headmasters and if it gets green light by Hasbro and Shout, it'll blow your mind. BTW, it's bit unfair to criticize Zone fandub as it was one of the EARLIEST TF fandubs, done waaaay back in 2004. "There really is no need to have this added on." - There's no need to feature Star Dubs either. "and another track that features the names as they are said in Japanese" - OOH! How about having one with Hungarian names? And one with Russian names? Won't that be awesome? :D
I too have seen this episode and I think it is epicly awesome and deserves a spot. It kept with classic G1 and melded it with Takara's to a perfection unlike any other. I burned it to a dvd and it looked great on my plasma. Steven C. Phillips
Web Designer, Voice Actor
http://www.geekcastradio.com | http://www.stevencphillips.net
I would still love to see it. Is it on TFCog's forums?
----- Original Post -----
by steve-megatron at 3/26/2011 7:49:34 AM
I too have seen this episode and I think it is epicly awesome and deserves a spot. It kept with classic G1 and melded it with Takara's to a perfection unlike any other. I burned it to a dvd and it looked great on my plasma.
Steven C. Phillips Web Designer, Voice Actor http://www.geekcastradio.com | http://www.stevencphillips.net
No, it's not. It's exclusive to only a few that Grimbot has personally shared it with as sort of a test screening.
----- Original Post -----
by IAmThePeej at 3/26/2011 10:23:53 PM
I would still love to see it. Is it on TFCog's forums?
----- Original Post -----
by steve-megatron at 3/26/2011 7:49:34 AM
I too have seen this episode and I think it is epicly awesome and deserves a spot. It kept with classic G1 and melded it with Takara's to a perfection unlike any other. I burned it to a dvd and it looked great on my plasma.
Steven C. Phillips Web Designer, Voice Actor http://www.geekcastradio.com | http://www.stevencphillips.net
Excuse this being a first post, but I hopped into this thread when I heard about this license being obtained and was curious about how Shout! Factory would handle what is, basically, a foreign anime release as opposed to something more within it's general comfort zone. I currently have the SMB Super Show Volume 2 set, and... that's basically it so far in terms of their releases, huh?
But anyway, responding to Grimbot's post here; I would say that it is a rather -bad- logic jump to compare subtitles to a dub in terms of how they treat a property. A dub, by it's nature, is a reversioning/localization of a show; subtitles, at their ideal, are intended to be a -direct translation-. (And if their versions are subtitled in that way, I'm certain the fans there would say they got "crappy dubtitles" for a translation.)
Therefore, I would suggest thinking this through without comparing it to any previous "dub" of a Transformers product - only using previous official subtitled products as reference, as I believe consistency is a good thing to have (although, what -has- been released subtitled previously in terms of Transformers products?)
----- Original Post -----
by Grimbot at 3/26/2011 7:01:12 AM
English subtitles, English names. I mean, did they kept US names for Japanese dub of G1? No. Neither did French, Hungarians, Russians... So why are Japanese names untouchable while anyone can do whatever they want with names in G1 cartoon?!
----- Original Post -----
by StarTrooper at 3/25/2011 10:40:18 AM
Regardless of the fact that it's "Transformers", these are anime series and if the original Japanese audio is included then it should also contain "proper" subtitle tracks with the characters being refered to by their japanese names. Japanese Transformers G1 continuity is DIFFERENT from the US. Changing the names just reeks of an attempt to shoehorn these series into the US G1 universe.
----- Original Post -----
by Grimbot at 3/25/2011 8:35:29 AM
"I have watched at TFCog, the audio quality is just too all over the place. Especially on Zone." - For this, dubs would be remade (at very least 1 episode for each disc due to time it takes to (re)make them) and the quality will be high. I've just completed the demo dub for Headmasters and if it gets green light by Hasbro and Shout, it'll blow your mind. BTW, it's bit unfair to criticize Zone fandub as it was one of the EARLIEST TF fandubs, done waaaay back in 2004. "There really is no need to have this added on." - There's no need to feature Star Dubs either. "and another track that features the names as they are said in Japanese" - OOH! How about having one with Hungarian names? And one with Russian names? Won't that be awesome? :D
I'm very interested in seeing this dub. A formal dub, done by fans, would certainly be much more interesting than one done by a production house with little knowledge of the mythos.
In response to KCabbusses; I disagree with your reasoning for why subtitles are better than dubs. Both dubs and subtitles take creative license with the language they are translating from to the language they are translating to. If there wasn't some creative editing of words and phrases, many subtitled shows/movies would not make any sense in the new language.
I, for one, find it distracting hearing the original language while reading the subtitles at the bottom. I would much rather have a dub, which keeps the initial mood of the original, while also allowing for a much broader appeal.
----- Original Post ----- by KCabbusses at 3/28/2011 10:02:31 AM
Excuse this being a first post, but I hopped into this thread when I heard about this license being obtained and was curious about how Shout! Factory would handle what is, basically, a foreign anime release as opposed to something more within it's general comfort zone. I currently have the SMB Super Show Volume 2 set, and... that's basically it so far in terms of their releases, huh?
But anyway, responding to Grimbot's post here; I would say that it is a rather -bad- logic jump to compare subtitles to a dub in terms of how they treat a property. A dub, by it's nature, is a reversioning/localization of a show; subtitles, at their ideal, are intended to be a -direct translation-. (And if their versions are subtitled in that way, I'm certain the fans there would say they got "crappy dubtitles" for a translation.)
Therefore, I would suggest thinking this through without comparing it to any previous "dub" of a Transformers product - only using previous official subtitled products as reference, as I believe consistency is a good thing to have (although, what -has- been released subtitled previously in terms of Transformers products?)
----- Original Post -----
by Grimbot at 3/26/2011 7:01:12 AM
English subtitles, English names. I mean, did they kept US names for Japanese dub of G1? No. Neither did French, Hungarians, Russians... So why are Japanese names untouchable while anyone can do whatever they want with names in G1 cartoon?!
----- Original Post -----
by StarTrooper at 3/25/2011 10:40:18 AM
Regardless of the fact that it's "Transformers", these are anime series and if the original Japanese audio is included then it should also contain "proper" subtitle tracks with the characters being refered to by their japanese names. Japanese Transformers G1 continuity is DIFFERENT from the US. Changing the names just reeks of an attempt to shoehorn these series into the US G1 universe.
----- Original Post -----
by Grimbot at 3/25/2011 8:35:29 AM
"I have watched at TFCog, the audio quality is just too all over the place. Especially on Zone." - For this, dubs would be remade (at very least 1 episode for each disc due to time it takes to (re)make them) and the quality will be high. I've just completed the demo dub for Headmasters and if it gets green light by Hasbro and Shout, it'll blow your mind. BTW, it's bit unfair to criticize Zone fandub as it was one of the EARLIEST TF fandubs, done waaaay back in 2004. "There really is no need to have this added on." - There's no need to feature Star Dubs either. "and another track that features the names as they are said in Japanese" - OOH! How about having one with Hungarian names? And one with Russian names? Won't that be awesome? :D
Looking into the possibility of including a fan dub as part of the set, but have run into a bit of hesitancy. Something should be made clear here. As we all know, these series were created outside of Hasbro's jurisdiction. They had nothing to do with them. So they're incredible uneasy with a lot having to do with the show's characters, storylines, continuity with the stateside incarnations, etc. Fan dubs are risky. Hasbro wants script approvals on top of a physical approval of the final products. So getting this dub or any fan dub approved is highly unlikely. I won't lie. Even the overseas are looking shaky right now, due to content Hasbro is uncomfortable with.
I'm sure a statement at the beginning of the dub, noting the disposition of series would placate all involved. I can't think of anyone who would purchase or view the dubs thinking that it conflicts with what is already part of the overall TF continuity..there are already so many branches that one more leaf won't hurt.
Ah, apologies if the context was lost; I was not arguing any sort of superiority in subs over dubs. Heck, I'm one that can easily find enjoyment out of terrible dubs. (The Speedy VCDs of Dragon Ball Z movies probably easily beat the Star TV Transformers dubs in terms of terrible quality. Mwhahahahah!... but, yeah, I can enjoy good dubs too. :P)
My argument was for, in the case that there is a subtitle track, how said track would be handled. What I said about dubs in the earlier post was to counter Grimlock's suggestion that "if [x] dub uses [y] name, the subtitle track should be the same." (I admit I'm kinda simplifying what he said since he referred to multiple regions, but I feel my point is still valid.)
Another thing to consider is that the audience that would watch a subtitle track are likely to be very different from those that would only watch a dub.
Cut the rest of the quotes because it was getting too long.
----- Original Post -----
by Diomidis at 3/28/2011 11:30:04 AM
I'm very interested in seeing this dub. A formal dub, done by fans, would certainly be much more interesting than one done by a production house with little knowledge of the mythos. In response to KCabbusses; I disagree with your reasoning for why subtitles are better than dubs. Both dubs and subtitles take creative license with the language they are translating from to the language they are translating to. If there wasn't some creative editing of words and phrases, many subtitled shows/movies would not make any sense in the new language. I, for one, find it distracting hearing the original language while reading the subtitles at the bottom. I would much rather have a dub, which keeps the initial mood of the original, while also allowing for a much broader appeal.
Grimbot, fan dubs are "risky" because Hasbro had nothing to do with them. They've not written the scripts. They've not read the scripts. They've not approved casting. They've not approved the audio. And, frankly, they don't want to put the time into listening to every detail of the audio before making a decision to approve or not.
Hasbro, like any studio, wants approval over everything, before you get started; not afterward. I know for many, it's a case of, "we've done the work for them!" But they don't see it that way. They hear, "we've done the work you wouldn't have necessarily approved!" That may not be the case, but that's how lawyers feel. They're wary. That's all. And probably for good reason. That's how companies get in trouble. After all, the dub for Headmasters overseas includes direct derogatory references to Down Syndrome. Hasbro doesn't want that stuff in an English-language dub of an animated series carrying the Transformers brand.
The bottom line is this: Hasbro had nothing to do with this series when it was created. And they don't really want much to do with it now. This is not their Transformers. So EVERYTHING is risky to them. Even more so when the job isn't being done by employees of Hasbro or Shout! Factory, but by fans taking it upon themselves to translate a foreign language and create dubs.
So if the Hasbro lawyers get their way, we are going to get just the Japanese audio with presumably edited subtitles?
Is Hasbro aware that the Star english dub was included on the UK & Australlian DVD releases?
----- Original Post -----
by B Ward at 3/28/2011 5:25:44 PM
After all, the dub for Headmasters overseas includes direct derogatory references to Down Syndrome. Hasbro doesn't want that stuff in an English-language dub of an animated series carrying the Transformers brand.
That's the thing. Our dub has no offensive lines. It's clean and sounds great. I personally would prefer having the fan dubs on there. I would rather have just Jap's vocals than have the Star Dub and what not. I think one of each medium should at least be there though from the above just as a testament to how it could look. Steven C. Phillips
Web Designer, Voice Actor
http://www.geekcastradio.com | http://www.stevencphillips.net
"Make sense?" - Absolutely. So to which e-mail should I send stuff for approval?
----- Original Post ----- by B Ward at 3/28/2011 5:25:44 PM
Grimbot, fan dubs are "risky" because Hasbro had nothing to do with them. They've not written the scripts. They've not read the scripts. They've not approved casting. They've not approved the audio. And, frankly, they don't want to put the time into listening to every detail of the audio before making a decision to approve or not.
Hasbro, like any studio, wants approval over everything, before you get started; not afterward. I know for many, it's a case of, "we've done the work for them!" But they don't see it that way. They hear, "we've done the work you wouldn't have necessarily approved!" That may not be the case, but that's how lawyers feel. They're wary. That's all. And probably for good reason. That's how companies get in trouble. After all, the dub for Headmasters overseas includes direct derogatory references to Down Syndrome. Hasbro doesn't want that stuff in an English-language dub of an animated series carrying the Transformers brand.
The bottom line is this: Hasbro had nothing to do with this series when it was created. And they don't really want much to do with it now. This is not their Transformers. So EVERYTHING is risky to them. Even more so when the job isn't being done by employees of Hasbro or Shout! Factory, but by fans taking it upon themselves to translate a foreign language and create dubs.
Pretty sure I've never noticed the downs syndrome line before. Anybody know which episode/scene this occurs in? I do recall that the original Omni Productions dubs featuring such gems as "Go to hell" semi-regularly, which no-one in the Asiatic markets the dubs were produced for would have batted an eyelid at, but a phrase which would never be heard in a Western-produced Transformers animated series.
Plus, this implys that such concerns would also now presumably play a part in the English subtitle scripts, which I expect would now possibly have to be toned down a little here and there to comply with Hasbro US' concerns, which didn't apply to the UK/Australian DVD sets.
----- Original Post -----
by B Ward at 3/28/2011 5:25:44 PM
After all, the dub for Headmasters overseas includes direct derogatory references to Down Syndrome.
But even then Hasbro wouldn't have to worry whether dubbed by Pro's or by TFCog. The scripts at least with TFCog and Grimbot are in the direct veins of Transformers Generation One and clean in all ways. I have never heard lines like that. But I can understand from Hasbro too in that it isn't official. But if they were that worried then why import it at all. Put a little of everything in there for all fans despite the quality. Put some Japan Takara, some StarDub/Omni for those interested and some of TFCog's/Grimbot's fandubs where the voices and scripts are as close to the CLASSIC Transformers 80's toon as we're going to get. Steven C. Phillips
Web Designer, Voice Actor
http://www.geekcastradio.com | http://www.stevencphillips.net
BTW, isn't it odd that Hasbro doesn't seem to have anything against live action movies? Toilet jokes... robots with reproductive organs... urinating robots... racist robots... robots that hump peoples legs... And these are being seen by millions and millions! Including kids... Yet they even want a 4th movie to be made.
Well, it all comes down to $$$. The Michael Bay movies are so mainstream that any offensive material contained within is pardoned by Hasbro because it is not only making boatloads of cash on its own, but also enabling Hasbro to put out toys based on those characters.
The fandubs could be of a quality which rivals any official production done on the series but, as Brian pointed out, none of it was approved by Hasbro, therefore they aren't all that keen to give it a green light. The Michael Bay movies, as... ludicrous as they may be, likely had Hasbro approval every step of the way. Unfortunately, any way you look at it, it is unlikely these DVD sets will bring in anything close to what the Michael Bay movies make, therefore Hasbro will be all to eager to veto anything fan-related which they had no part in organizing.
Excellent work Grimbot. Honestly, that sounded (music, voice, effects) like a professionally done episode, even up to Sunbow's level. Much better than the lousy Hong Kong dub.
To Brian, I can understand Hasbro's issues, and I hope they change their mind. This demo was excellent, as were the Scramble City 1 dub and Scramble City 2 newly animated/dubbed productions.
I thought the fan dub demo was pretty good. As long as the orginal Japanese audio with correct subtitles are included, I'd have no problem with Shout including the Fandub on it's DVDs. Here's hoping that Hasbro says yes.
I really doubt Hasbro will let us despite me desperately wanting them to be. They decided that "Theft of the Golden Disc" a BOTCON Prequel to Beast Wars wasn't to be included on those discs so chances are this won't be either.
I do love the way this dub came out though. Grimbot did an awesome job with all of it. I loved it more due to being in the cast lol. Steven C. Phillips
Web Designer, Voice Actor
http://www.geekcastradio.com | http://www.stevencphillips.net
If content was ever a concern, I have to agree with Grimbot. This is much closer to the PG content that WAS approved by Hasbro under Sunbow than even the Bay movies are. I couldn't even let my 5 & 6 year old nephews watch the Bay movie on TV the other night because I was concerned for the inapropriate jokes that they'd pick up from it. They do not need to be hearing about masterbation jokes and asking what that means. Totally inapropriate.
It simply doesn't make sense for Hasbro to say they're concerned with the conent when you see what they have already approved. Especially when the content of the fan dub is designed to make it exactly like their Generation 1 Sunbot DVDs. It's supposed to fit right in with the continuity of those DVDs as sort of a continuation.
So I would hope they would at least view it and then weight the benefits to this option. If nothing else, it can be a nice little bonus.
When all is said and done, Hasbro has the right to do what they choose. Transformers is their property. We are all just fans of their creation. I just hope they'll give it a chance and consider the opportunity to add content that could help the DVDs. Especially if people seem to like it, it could benefit the DVDs from a business stand point.
I just had the chance to check out the headmasters demo and... wow that was awesome work guys. That blows the old english dub out of the water. Hasbro would be crazy not to allow this to be added! Brian, from someone that has pretty much been a fan of Transformers their entire life, this would be a great add on to the set. - Jim
No matter what, however, nothing can take away the fact that you guys did a damned good job with the demo. I'd certainly watch an entire series with that kind of dub, as opposed to sticking with Japanese with English subtitles rather than put up with that infamous dub.
----- Original Post -----
by Hot Rod at 4/7/2011 12:04:12 AM
Honestly, the quick release, the price being so low I could probably be able to afford it right now (lol) and the lack of details in the Amazon description are kinda worrying. It's almost like it's already being treated like a used, discontinued, or bootleg item.
I'm hoping we at least get Japanese audio with subtitles that were better than the other international releases. I don't think it'd be feasible for a fandub to be done by the time it has to go gold.
This has always been my primary concern where a fandub was concerned. Given that it had been announced prior to the suggestion of including a fandub that the set would be released this year, it just seemed like there just was not enough time to have a quality dub created for inclusion unless such a dub was an exclusive for a Complete Series collection.
----- Original Post -----
by KCabbusses at 4/8/2011 7:40:05 PM
I don't think it'd be feasible for a fandub to be done by the time it has to go gold.
But the Omni Productions dub is going to be included, right? The Transformers Wiki - http://www.tfwiki.net
Transformers Instructions http://tfwiki.net/~fortmax/
If I read Brian's message above correctly, I'm doubtful about its inclusion. I don't know if Hasbro had anything to do with the Madman or Metrodome releases, but they certainly have a hand in a North American release, so they'll want to protect their brand as much as they can and, unless it's Bayformers, they aren't gonna let any form of potentially-questionable material see an official release.
TV-Loonland bought Sunbow in the year 2000. Sunbow (I don't remember who they got them from) has bought all international rights to the Japanese G1 Transformer shows (and had held the rights to the American G1 since it aired.)
That is who Madman/Metrodome had to deal with for their sets. A few years ago Hasbro bought ALL the rights to all the various G1 shows from TV-Loonland.
So now we are at a point where the people who own the franchise, also own the shows.
With something like G1, this is great.
For Japanese G1 it's a bit of an oddity in that, these shows don't mean anything to most of the franchises potential audience, and people who saw it when they were kids. Most of the interest is just from fans wanting to see 'everything'. The quality of the various Japanese G1 series are negligable (and plenty of people will defend OR bash them, but they aren't great.)
This creates more of an issue when you consider that since Cybertron (or Galaxy Force if you want to use the Japanese title) all the shows have been produced as North American cartoons (animated in the east sure, but with all the decisions made here) must like Beast Wars, which is still largely remembered as the pinnacle of the franchise as far as animation goes.
That comes up because, since Cybertron has ended, there has been a real push by Hasbro to make it a high end franchise. Whether it's the more stylized animation of Animated (which plenty of people didn't like) or looking at many things Prime has borrowed from Beast Wars, it's clear Hasbro has pushed past the days of cheap animation and storytelling from Armada or Energon done by letting Takara take charge with Japanese studios (and this includes the old Japanese G1 shows.)
This all leads to the main point- People will hear about the JPN G1 shows, and will track them down, because they do exist and aren't that easy to find, even prior to Shout announcing R1 DVDs. At least by licensing to Shout Hasbro can look over everything and be comfortable with what is on the shelf, because frankly- A 20 or 30 dollar set on Best Buy or Amazon will always be the set bought. Outside of a few fans on the internet, no one in R1 land who hears about the JPN shows from this point out will be importing the series from the previously released international sets.
And the truth of the matter is- This isn't a case of an English dub being decent in any way. I love English dubs of animation- Digimon, the older parts of the Pokemon Dub, Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Tenchi, Ranma, etc. This was a trashy dub done in a garage somewhere, where half the names are nonsensical, there is no form of acting used, and outside of being able to put 'English audio' on the box, has NOTHING positive to it (minus sitting with your friends and making fun of it.)
I appreciate wanting it, I sorta do also for the amusement (having only seen a few hours worth of the dub.)
On this note, I would probably suggest that Shout put a prominent sticker on the front of the box (on the plastic wrap of course) that these are "Subtitled in English" if that is how they're going to be how it's presented. Especially if these sets are going to be marketed in the bigger retailers (Walmart, Best Buy, Target etc..). Even though it says "Japanese Collection" on the box, I've worked in retail for a decade and can imagine all too well some angry mother coming in complaining that the DVD set she bought for her little boy isn't even in English. I'd point Shout to how Pioneer handled Cardcaptor Sakura a few years ago. The dub was released as Cardcaptors and the uncut, subbed version as Cardcaptor Sakura, but, Pioneer also added a similar sticker to the front. Granted, I think they would have been fine seeing as that didn't get any shelf space outside of the smaller video stores and the once, much larger anime section at Best Buy.
And it may not be a problem, but I've dealt with things sorta like this before and it's the people on the front lines at the stores who have to deal with the bulk of the grief. While this "solution" wouldn't counteract that completely, I can tell you from experience that when I have something to point to and say "well it says right here that...," it usually disarms the customer's argument and they chalk it up to overlooking it themselves.
Just saying Personally, I cannot wait for the set. Looking forward to owning it and Beast Wars. Any word on a complete Japanese Collection set...I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to know before I start buying the individual sets. And who knows, if these do well maybe we can get the Japanese Beast Wars series and its movie.
----- Original Post -----
by bammybam at 4/9/2011 5:48:29 PM
...and outside of being able to put 'English audio' on the box...
Just found out that it will be subs only. No star tv dub huh? That's a shame. I hope we get some extra's on the set. (at least put some japan commercials on it.)
If that's true, then Shout has really let us down. I'd be surprised since they've done such a great job on all their other TF releases. Hasbro has allowed the AU version to have the dubs - I have them and they splash thier logo at the disc start up; not sure about the UK version. I haven't seen anything official yet so I'm still hopeful.
I really can't make this any more clear. We've tried and tried to no avail. The brand team at Hasbro is dead set against including the dubs on the DVDs. They're not happy with the fact that the names of some of their most popular characters have been changed and find it confusing to their less hardcore fans in the United States. Furthermore, there are other things they've heard and find objectionable; content they feel to be detrimental to their brand name. As a result, they will not currently allow me to include the dubs.
the topic of fan dubs or new dubs has also been broached with the brand team. In order to have anything like this approved for inclusion on the sets, they want approvals over the scripts, the voice cast and then the final audio. We don't have the money required for a new dub. For starters, it takes studio time. Then, it takes paying the actors. Everyone asks the same question; would the original voice cast be able to come back and voice the characters? Simple answer: no. There are members of that voice cast that charge as much as $10k just to make a public convention appearance. That's a single person. Now multiply that by the number of voice actors. We don't have that kind of money. These guys aren't going to do this simply out of love for the show. For you, it's a passion. For them, it's a job. And once the voice cast completes their task, we then have to remix the entire show. This is all very expensive and incredibly time consuming.
so there you have it. It's not that we don't want it included. I very much want the option of the Japanese or English language tracks. But Hasbro is equally adamant about keeping them off. You're more than welcome to try to convince them otherwise, but believe me; when you have this conversation with them, you realize very early on how little love they actually have for the Takara shows, let alone the English dubs they find to be confusIng and offensive.
It’s nice to know that you've exhausted your options; sorry if I sounded ungrateful. I guess it’s hard to accept because the other regions were allowed to include them.
Can you tell us about the other differences we should expect between Shout’s release and the UK and AU releases – extras, better subtitles and video quality?
Is there a recommended contact we can send our complaints to on the Hasbro side re: the forced exclusion of the dubs?
Also, will this series be followed by Super God Master Force, Victory and the Zone & Scramble City episode or is Headmasters a test to gauge demand for the possibility of the next releases?
XDragon, that wasn't meant specifically for you. I've been approached by MANY fans insisting that I put the dubs on and that, if I don't, we've lost a ton of sales. This may be true. But I've done everything I can.
As for other differences, we're still working them out. I hope to know a little more very soon.
I can say that you should expect follow-ups of at least Super-God Masterforce and Victory. I can't really make any promises, regarding Scramble City or Zone at this time. That being said, Headmasters will certainly be used as a rough gauge of the series' popularity. After all, it is the only one of the three that is a direct continuation from S3, so we wouldn't necessarily expect the same response to the subsequent series.
I just noticed Headmasters became available for pre-order on Amazon.ca so, I've reserved a copy. To all of the Transfans who are upset at the exclusion of a dub, please consider supporting this so we can finally get the whole set for the first time in North America.
Are you releasing a complete Takara Collection set of all three shows? I hope there are new cool features with the Headmaster set since some already own the UK set which is region free and might not be motivated to buy it otherwise.
Unfortunately, I can't reveal the release strategy, until that information is cleared by PR and Hasbro. But I will say that I'm currently working on all three sets, in hopes that the sales of Headmasters will prove the others are worthy releases.
I read on tvshowsondvd.com this mornign that this release will most likely not include the English dub track done in the pacific rim in the late 1980's. I for one just want to say that this will not put me off of purchasing this set, nor should it hold anyone else back. I have these dubs on DVD already. There are many drawbacks to them:
1. All 3 shows (HM, MF & V) have the same "altered" "Victory" opening sequence along with a mock up U.S. season 2 end sequence (Not the original open/closers I would like to have) .
2. The voices are just awful & anyone with a face plate (Optimus Prime, Chrome Dome & Soundwave etc...) speaks with a muffled voice. The actors have very little emotion in their deliveries and are very hard to distinguish
3. Characters names are often mistranslated (The leader of the Trainbots is named "Grimlock", and Metroplex is named "Phillip"?? etc...
Although I do have these also in raw Japanese VHS, I have always wanted accurate well produced subtitles (fand subs are nto that great, and none were ever completed to the end of any series that I know of), so this release is ideal for me. cant wait, and I hope Masterforce & Victory are not far behind
www.tvnihon.com does some pretty good fan subbs and they have subbed all three of these Takara shows to compleation. At the moment you will not find Headmasters on their site because they pulled it as soon as they saw that Shout had a release date on the set. I had even tried to get a hold of Mr. Ward at one point to see if maybe he could try to get this Headmasters set looking a bit more like TVN's subbs. Effects and subbitle coloring IMHO make the subb feel more like they are part of the show and not just tacked on to the bottom of the screen Love with your heart, use your brain for everything else. - Captain Disillusion
Other than being broadcasted in NTSC how will these releases be any different than the ones from over yonder? My player converts PAL to NTSC. I want to know if there will be any remastering done to them. I will not spend money on these if they are the same as the sets already out there.
While it was pleasing to see fansubs of any series as old as the Japanese G1 series, doing subtitles the way TVNihon did them would definitely not be recommended for a professional DVD release, since TVNihon has a notorious tendency to simply not translate numerous words in the context of a sentence, somewhat at odds with the word "translation".
The UK subs for Headmasters, while not exactly polished, were serviceable enough, but would require some serious QC-ing to make sure all the names were correct 100% of the time (which they weren't on the UK/Australian sets), and the removal of anomalous lines that appeared in episode 21's subs (an error unbelievably replicated on the Australian set released two years after the UK set). UK fan Chris McFeely has said he already made such corrections to these scripts for the original UK Metrodome releases several years ago, but the final versions went unused.
Also, regardless of how the subs are done, with either new or pre-existing translations, I can only hope that the Headmasters episodes are all unedited, unlike the UK/Australian sets. This more than anything else, will determine whether or not I purchase this release, since unlike the unrealistic wishful thinking on dubs, there should be no barrier to getting unedited episodes exactly as released on the Japanese R2 DVDs a few years ago.
----- Original Post -----
by DekaPrime at 4/20/2011 12:47:12 PM
www.tvnihon.com does some pretty good fan subbs and they have subbed all three of these Takara shows to compleation.
obviously I want my Transformers completely translated, I'm not a big fan of all the "kun-tatchi" myself. I was however pointing out that the way the subbs tend to look in their shows make them seem more intigrated into said shows. Plain white or yellow subbs are just boaring to me. But that's just me. Love with your heart, use your brain for everything else. - Captain Disillusion
Hey I just read that the Headmasters, Masterforce and Victory will be released in a Complete Japanese series set. Will this set have any special features that are not going to be on the individual sets similar to the Matrix of Leadership Complete G1 set?
Reminds me of how I was the first to find the Beast Wars complete series set on this site. I'll probably be getting the Takara complete set when it comes to retail down the road. Hopefully, retail stores like Best Buy will actually carry it in store. If not, I'll probably order from Amazon.
I truly hope SHOUT! Factory stops using VHS masters and uses film that has been cleaned, digitizd, and Digitally Restored! Then you could be marketing your animation releases on Blu-ray! Id like to start a company that actually restores things instead of using studio VHS.
Sometimes I notice things like a bit off of the 4:3 images on some animation releases of yours and would like to ask that there be a conduct of code to releasing the Original Aspect Ratio from your sources. GI JOE had some of the top and bottom cut off for some reason.. which lead to dropped sales.
I canceled my blu-ray buy of GI JOE when I learned your company didn't use the ORIGINAL ASPECT RATIO. Please start follow guidelines of Media Restoration, instead of using old haggard broken ripped vhs tapes that has been stored and the tape has degraded.. 20 years is a long time, thats why your company needs to be using film instead of el cheepo vhs rips..
Please for the sake of preserving media, please start using Film Masters instead of VHS Masters while using modern day Film industry standards of Digitally Restoring the Film Master (Not Universals way thats for sure, every film they restore looks like garbage spilled on the film print)
This is the only way to release a 20 year old series.
DVD is an old format.
Your company still uses Interlacing instead of progressive frames, even though it was established far far long ago this was an insufficient means of storing video on dvd due to the ultra low bitrate it uses it also leads to a heavily altered picture quality or pixelation with jagged lines due to interlacing.
Your dvds have been known to be 480i not 480p which is less quality and you can fit more episodes on the disc which is good for corporations who are corporate minded and only care about money and not quality and only speed. Your dvds are 240p The quality of a Youtube video. HEAVILY COMPRESSED MEDIA ONLY LEADS TO A BAD QUALITY RELEASE AND LEADS TO A BAD PRODUCT.
I will continue to troll and BOYCOTT on these forums until this quality is upheld and there are better digital restoration initiatives in your company.
Like I said before there are unknown people on the internet willing to coach your team into providing a quality product for the amount of money invested into the releasing of these old series. All you have to do is ask the release scene. Pirates, who steal from corporations know more about digital restoration than your company and that is pathetic and disgusting.
YOU ARE FOLLOWING EVERYONE ELSE'S FOOTSTEPS! Why can't companies release things such as this without screwing it up and charging 80 dollars a boxset when they are inferior to what could be done. Who ever you hired from funimation needs to be fired.. Laughable your company has become. VHS transfers are the future of 30 year old animation? PATHETIC! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT!
It's to bad you don't know anything about how video works.
The vast majority of animated shows Shout releases (especially from the 80s/early 90s) were mastered on 'video tape' (not always VHS, but sometimes... yeah.)
That means that those tapes are the best quality copies that exist, period. You can't really remaster tape. At best you can do some technical trickery to make it look better, but that often leads to the video quality actually being LOWER.
Film does NOT exist for most of these shows. In many cases, the ORIGINAL tape masters don't even exist, for many shows, at best, there is an edited syndication tape.
Many of these tapes are interlaced, which is why the DVDs are 480i. Sure they could simply put them through a filter and make it 480p, but that adds nothing to the quality since any decent DVD player and TV will deal with it properly. In fact, trying to deinterlace it to force the DVDs to 480p could lead to mistakes that cause actual issues.
As for GI Joe. Go and learn something about animation. GI Joe was animated 'open matte.' Everything was framed for 16:9 but with animation continuing past the 16:9 bar since they knew it'd be tossed on VHS after the fact. The BD being 16:9 is an attempt to keep the original intent of the animation, was that it would be widescreen. Plenty of animation was done this way, and almost universally if you ask the directors or production crews of those projects they want it watched in 16:9 (the best (and most well known) examples being the early seasons of JL/JLU and the Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker film.)
For the vast majority of what Shout releases, there simply are not any 'better' masters to do a remastering off. What they put out is what exists.
Not to mention things you are just making up. Shout hasn't released an 80 dollar 'set' of animation. The few sets they've released that are that expensive were collections of MULTIPLE sets.
If you have a problem with something Shout does, at least be honest about it and don't throw in things that don't exist. It makes you look ignorant, it makes you look like a liar, and it doesn't even make you look like a troll. It just makes you look stupid. But then your lack of knowledge about all the other things you brought up are likely evidence enough.
Educate yourself, then make legitimate complaints.
----- Original Post -----
by yo[shiite]aka at 4/25/2011 2:00:01 PM
If you actually looked at the specs for the G.I. Joe movie blu-ray for about a SECOND you'd see that it actually includes BOTH aspect ratios for the film. Myself and other fans lobbied heavily for that when it was being produced, and Shout being the awesome folks that they are obliged by giving us both options in one handy dandy shiny package. Both aspect ratios are correct, depending on what you feel like watching at the time.
VHS being used for masters??? I'd like to see where that info comes from. The only time I've ever seen Shout use VHS material is for extras - such as the commercials on the G.I. Joe and Transformers sets. Why? Because NO OTHER MASTERS EXIST! The studios tended not to keep masters of commercials laying around, since once they've finished their run they would never be shown again. TV on DVD was still 20+ years away, so there was no reason to think there would ever be any need to keep that material. So the only source for those old ads is fans who happened to record them back in the day. It's that or nothing. Would nothing be preferable?
As for the shows themselves, they would be taken either from 1" or DigiBeta BROADCAST masters, far superior quality to even the cleanest DVD transfer, or in rare cases (such as the G.I. Joe Movie) 35mm film prints if available. The only reason they would ever use a VHS tape for a master is if no other option existed. And I have yet to hear of a single case where this was necessary.
Hope this and bammybam's post collectively clear up the apparent confusion.
The Multimedia Chronicles and more: http://www.zaranyzerak.com
Any chance of Zone and Scramble City, if nothing else, being released as Shout! Select standalone DVDs? I'd really like to have those two to complete the set.
There's only a $3 difference in price for the ReBoot complete set between Amazon.com and Amazon.ca and with Amazon.ca it would qualify for free shipping. The first season for Beast Wars, however, is the exact same price on both, while the Headmasters set is actually $1 cheaper on Amazon.ca than Amazon.com.
So, I would expect there to be maybe a $10 for the complete set and with how much Amazon.ca charges for shipping, it would end up being cheaper than ordering through Shout! who do ship to Canada, but the cheapest they charge for shipping is $27.50 for orders under $40 and as the complete set for the Japanese Transformers would likely be in the $80 range, that would be another $30.50 for shipping so you would really be gouged by Shout! where shipping is concerned.
Just wait for it to show up on Amazon (ca or com) and you'll be able to get it for a good price.
----- Original Post -----
by coughler at 4/27/2011 11:05:34 PM
Us Canadians will get gauged from online retailers for the complete set. I wish you guys shipped to Canada.
By gauge do you mean that Masterfore and Victory might never get released like Headmasters is?
I'm only asking out of trying to decide if I should get Headmasters or the (over-priced based on episodes per series and price of Headmasters) Complete Collection.
I'm also wonder why only Headmasters is offered on amazon.com while the Complete Collection isn't?
----- Original Post -----
by B Ward at 4/18/2011 8:55:20 AM
I can say that you should expect follow-ups of at least Super-God Masterforce and Victory. I can't really make any promises, regarding Scramble City or Zone at this time. That being said, Headmasters will certainly be used as a rough gauge of the series' popularity. After all, it is the only one of the three that is a direct continuation from S3, so we wouldn't necessarily expect the same response to the subsequent series.
First and foremost, I want to thank you and Shout for working hard to get us legit Region 1 releases of these series. I've been wanting to watch them and display them on my shelf for years!
I have a pre-order in at amazon for headmasters already. I am wondering if the complete Japanese Set recently listed on this site is going to be sold through Amazon or only through your site?
Any news or updates would be sincerely appreciated.
The box set isn't considered a Shout! Select title only, is it? Isn't it getting a general retail release down the road like the original Transformers and Joes sets? If I can only buy through a third party vendor on Amazon, I'll probably have to pass on this set. I like retail Amazon's prices and customer service better.
I just checked the Shout! Select section and both the Takara complete collection and Beast Wars complete collection are listed in the discography. Now that kinda sucks for me living in Canada, as I won't be able to wait for a retail release of a Beast Wars complete set to show up on Amazon if it is just a Shout! Select product.
----- Original Post -----
by N8 Storm at 5/4/2011 8:36:18 PM
The box set isn't considered a Shout! Select title only, is it? Isn't it getting a general retail release down the road like the original Transformers and Joes sets? If I can only buy through a third party vendor on Amazon, I'll probably have to pass on this set. I like retail Amazon's prices and customer service better.
Oh my gosh, I already pre-ordered Headmasters and now you can get the whole Takara collection? That is awsome! I want to pre-order this too but, my question is can I afford to wait closer to its release date, or will the pre-order sell out before the release date?
Mr. Ward, way back in this thread, someone mentioned that the UK Headmasters was missing a certain amount of video (pre-title sequences, etc.). Will that be an issue with your set? I know you guys dig for the best source material available, but concerns over that sort of thing are the primary reason I haven't pre-ordered yet.
First of all, Thank you for putting out the Takara collection. Secondly, I'm seeing reports that you wouldn't be able to include any of the 'fandubs' for the series. Have you considered having a donation drive for funding for all new dubs? Us Transformers fans are a ravenous lot, and I'm certain we would be willing to donate the money to have 'the ultimate Takara release'. Just a suggestion. Thanks!
It only two months away so will shout give us a list of extras soon? I hope book of masterforce made it on the masterforce set as it fills in plotholes from the show.
Any chance for some commentary tracks? You could import the ones from the au or uk sets.
I'm glad to see that we're FINALLY getting a R1 release of these shows. I imported the Madman complete collection set of all the Japanese stuff. My intention was to create new english subtitles based on the ones provided by Madman and TVNihon. Prior to importing the Madman DVDs I looked at some versions of the shows floating around the internet, and I felt the video quality was horrible everywhere I went. The Madman DVDs, while a bit of an improvement are still not as good as what Shout Factory gave us in the US G1 sets (I have the Matrix collector's edition of that.)
I've not seen the Metrodome version(s) but I've heard that the difference between the two PAL sets are negligable. Any idea if the video quality for the Shout Factory will be improved over the PAL sets, dare I say at the level of quality found in the US G1 sets?
The madman set includes two subtitle tracks, one using Japanese names/titles, the other using US names/titles. Which type of subs will Madman be using, or will both be used? I've not had a good look at the TV Nihon subs yet, but there are some issues with the Madman US names subs. For my project I didn't even bother with the Japanese names subs. I wanted to tie this in as best I could with the US G1 series, and yes I realise how much the Japanese and US series DON'T match up.
Lastly there's one other important detail that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread at all. Apparently after Zone the Japanese G1 story was continued in manga form. Madman included this manga content in their complete collection. Any idea of this material will be included in the Shout Factory set?
I appreaciate the hard battles you guys have had to fight with Hasbro to make this happen, and I hope you continue to fight the good fight!
I am very excited about this release! Does Shout Factory plan to provide an official announcement this month providing details on extras, english subtitles used (american or japanese names), and whether or not the complete series set will include Zone? Also, I have not seen this complete series set available on Amazon. I did see Headmasters and the MASK Complete Series set available on Amazon.
I was glad to get to see/meet you at BotCon in Pasadena this past weekend (we spoke for about 15 minuts on Saturday afternoon) I know that probably dosen't narrow it down but.. I am glad to finally have the chance to obtain these shows on a legit R1 release (my Hong Kong english dubs will suffice for completeness sake, but I very rarely if ever will have to use them now).
I just hope as we spoke that an opportnity becomes available at a later date for other series (BWII & Neo) to get releases, also Car Robots/RiD as well as TF:Animated Season 3.
Brian - The press release says that the Headmasters release contains "the complete action-packed episodes from the Headmasters series and contains the original Japanese language tracks along with updated English subtitles"... (emphasis mine)... is that correct that you guys have updated the subtitles to be more accurate? The originals were pretty bad... Can you elaborate on what kinds of updates you've made to them? Also, have you also updated subtitles on the Japanese Collection set with SGMF & Victory? (And does that set contain updated Headmasters also?) Thanks so much for your hard work on these shows, and being a participant on the forums, too!
I cannot say for sure, but I think it just means that these subtitles were originally created for this specific release (obviously not from any fan subs or the UK or Australian previous releases). I would expect that they would be probably more accurate then other releases from other countries if SF had Japanese to English translators read the scripts and get the best possible English translations.
The subtitles were created for this release. To make sure context and content were accurate, the scripts were read and approved by the Transformers team over at Hasbro. So I think you're probably getting a considerably better (and more coherent) set of subtitles on all three shows.
Brian, this post over on the TFW2005 forums suggests there are a few QC issues with the subtitles on the Headmasters sets sold at Botcon. Have any of these been corrected for the general retail edition?
Will a list of extras be provided soon in this forum for the complete Japanese collection set that will be sold on the Shout! Select store? For instance, will the short Book of Masterforce documentary and the Zone episode be included?
Will the episodes be complete and uncut?
At this stage, I am assuming that the English subtitles will be using the US Transformers names.
Zaxxar, I'm gonna get right on that. I'm just gonna invent a way to do it. And if I can't, I'm sure there's SOMEONE at Shout! Factory that can just invent a way. Right? RIGHT? Who invents technology? Anybody? No? Hmmm...
Sorry if this has already been brought up, I'm new and this is a long thread.
Has anybody mentioned if this will have different voice dubbing? I've seen this on YouTube, several clips. And the voices were so hard to tell apart.
It would be cool (yet also annoying at the same time) if the success of this DVD sale would generate interest from HASBRO to call in as many of the original voice actors as they could, to voice this show. The annoying part would be buying it again with the original voice actors.
1.) It won't contain any English audio tracks, just the Japanese audio with english subtitles. Hasbro's lawyers had issues with the Hong Kong commisioned English dub, and they would not approve the use of fandubs due to not having final say over the content of the scripts.
2.) Brain Ward stated earlier on in this thread that Hasbro doesn't like these Takara shows and were reluctant to even have them released in the US, so I find it highly unlikely that Hasbro would "foot the bill" for a new english dub with the surviving G1 voice actors.
----- Original Post -----
by Adam at 6/17/2011 10:32:23 AM
Sorry if this has already been brought up, I'm new and this is a long thread.
Has anybody mentioned if this will have different voice dubbing? I've seen this on YouTube, several clips. And the voices were so hard to tell apart.
It would be cool (yet also annoying at the same time) if the success of this DVD sale would generate interest from HASBRO to call in as many of the original voice actors as they could, to voice this show. The annoying part would be buying it again with the original voice actors.
Sorry to hear about the issues with the subtitles. Nothing is perfect, but significant QC and missing footage kept me from buying the UK stuff when it came out, and I'm afraid I'll end up on the sidelines again.
Shin, unfortunately, this looks to be a similar situation. A couple of reviews I've read suggest that this set is missing much, and possibly all, of the same footage as the British release. Nothing has been definitively stated on that issue that I can find, but it is strongly suggested by what I've read.
I'm beginning to suspect that what they've released may be all that's officially available, and therefore it may be the best that's possible these days.
Flamestrike or anyone else who knows, do you know where I can find the reviews that you have read? Would you mind providing the website links? I googled and could not find the reviews for the Shout Factory release of Transformers Headmasters. Thanks.
Was the complete series boxed set cancelled? My shortcut on my Desktop to it no longer returns an item and I don't see it anywhere else under the Transformers banner. The Japanese Headmasters release is still there though. Sorry if I'm asking about something already covered here, but, this thread was long. :) Thanks!
Gos, I found one of them in the Seibertron.com news section with discussion in the cartoons and comics forum. I'll have to look again for the other one and get back to you, but I'm pretty sure it was on another TF fan site. I just can't recall which one.
The set was not canceled, but it has been delayed, they say by 8-10 weeks. Pre-orders for the set have been canceled, but they say the set will be released once the production issues have been resolved.
ok this is odd, because I did not recieve any such e-mail, and now the amount for the pre-order is shwoing as a pending transaction in my bank account (which they dont take the money out until the item ships correct??)
Ok what the heck is going on? Why the hell did they cancel everyone's orders? I would of waited the 8-10 weeks for the Complete Set... So now they took it off the site entirely? We can't pre order it before it's released? That means everyone will be flooding the site that day just to get a set...
I received the email notice about the cancellation of my pre-order for this set, but my PayPal account hasn't received any refund yet. I want to know what's going on and why my canceled pre-order hasn't been refunded yet.
The problem here is that Shout Factory decided to cancel everyone's pre orders because they are delaying the release of the set because they were having issues... I believe they should of e mailed everyone with a choice if they want to still have a pre order.... Instead of canceling it. I would of gladly accepted to be on the pre order list.. That way I don't have to worry about pre ordering it next time. Now I have to worry about being able to get the set later on. This Set will not be sold in stores, and Amazon I'm not sure about... It all depends on if the sales are good for the Headmasters Box Set. Cuz if it isn't I can garantee that Shout Factory won't release the Complete Set on Amazon. And it will probably be limited on Shout Factory's store.
So in the end, I want some proof that getting the Complete Set later is a garantee or not. Cuz I think everyone needs to know.
I did. I simply posted here to let others know what was going on and that the issue existed in case anyone in the same boat as myself didn't know yet if the same was happening to others.
----- Original Post -----
by irthesteve at 7/1/2011 3:56:57 PM
Instead of complaining, you should probably just email customer service with your questions
I received my copy of Headmasters yesterday and checked out one full episode and, even though I know there will be some who are disappointed that the subtitles used the English names of the characters, this set is exactly what I wanted out of this release. I'm not too fussed if there aren't any extras to speak of as the show itself is why I purchased the set and, perhaps the only thing I would have done differently, is add the eyecatches as extras kinda like what the Rhino set for the first season of Transformers did.
One question about Masterforce and Victory, will they be exclusively available in the complete series set, or will they see individual releases as well?
I just watched the first episode of the Headmasters box set... And I'm wondering Brian, why the recap of the entire series, commercial bumpers and previews of the following episode were cut out of the DVD? This seems odd considering that all your other Hasbro releases (G1 Transformers, G.I. Joe) have these sorts of things included.
I was going to ask something about the subtitles, but I think you answered that one for me that they were "approved by Hasbro", so that explains why some of the course language was cut out and the Americanized names were used. But I'm wondering, are they doing that with the Masterforce episodes? Using the Americanized names? I mean, I'm nit picking here, but calling him Optimus Prime instead of Ginrai seems kind of silly. Also is the word "God" being culled from the subtitles? Because it's right there in the audio track and that seems kind of absurd.
Got a whole other line of questions about Japanese transformers here:
If the Japanese box sets are a commercial success, will Shout! Factory attempt to convince Hasbro to release subtitled versions of Beast Wars II and Beast Wars NEO? Would also good sales of the Mainframe Beast Wars series also make the release of these episodes commercially viable?
I would suspect that Shout! Factory might also get into releasing the post-Beast Wars Transformer cartoons (Namely, Robots in Disguise, Armada, Energon, and Cybertron) would there be consideration to make the Japanese version of these episodes available with english subtitles?
I see that as being a potential problem with RID because the show was slightly recut for American markets and had some digital enhancements.
Also if an Armada release was done, the Japanese versions of the episodes had a lot of animation touch ups that cleaned up some of the ... er ... sloppiness seen in the American version, would Shout! seek out the Japanese video footage and overlay the American audio track to present a better product?
Question about Headmasters. Weren't some or all of these Japanese episodes translated into English language dialog tracks for an Australian market release? I've seen one episode that was in English, so, I'm guessing there must have been more. If there were other episodes that had English tracks, why weren't they included on the Shout! Factory boxed set?
Sorry if I'm covering something posted here, but, there were a lot of posts. :)
The names were naturally changed for Headmasters, due to the fact that this is an American release for an American audience familiar with those names, just as the Japanese translated American names into their own versions for their own releases. For Super-God Masterforce and Victory, however, we've kept the Japanese names where applicable (i.e. Ginrai).
As for the English language dubs, these were not approved for use for many reasons. For starters, they're just plain bad. Secondly, there is material neither we nor Hasbro would feel comfortable including on an American release. These are just two of the reasons.
Also, I just want to preemptively discuss something that was apparently announced via TVShowsOnDVD.com without first asking us. The date for the Complete Japanese Collection is NOT, in fact, set for early December. The catalog they scanned was printed prior to our production delay in Japan. This was discussed with several fans at Comic-Con in San Diego this past weekend. As of now, until Digibeta stock is more readily available in Japan for the dubs of the superior Super-God Masterforce and Victory masters, no date is set for the Complete Japanese Collection's release.
Is there a chance we may eventually get to a situation where poor sales of the headmasters set may cause the delayed takara complete collection to get cancelled? I know it isn't cancelled as of now, but if sales of the headmasters set are terrible, could that sort of thing happen? I really don't want to get the single headmasters set since I'm waiting for the complete set (been waiting for years, actually), but if the release of the complete set hinges on the success of the headmasters set, please let us know so we can start buying copies!
I don't believe so, as we're well aware that some people are waiting for the complete series release before purchasing. We've put a lot of work into it already, so I'd say it's a safe bet that you can expect it out.
Starting on Disc 2 of Headmasters, the opening titles have been changed and the Decepticons are, for the most part, flashing. Why is this? It seems like such an odd thing for the makers of the original series to do. Basically, they created those Captain Power targets from the TV and VHS tape releases. :)
The flashing transformers were in the original japan version. Shout didn't add them. I'm shocked they kept them in after the whole pokemon flashing lights thing! Guess hasbro isn't worried about kids to close to the screen!
For the masterforce set can we please get some japan commercials? I'll take vhs or youtube versions if that's what it takes. Someone on youtube has a vhs copy of book of masterforce. Maybe you guys could ask him for a copy.
Will the jr headmasters be the american names or japan? How about having the kids use the japan names as thier real names and american names as thier transformers names?
Having watched all the British releases and now the first several episodes, I can tell you there are some minor changes.
The most noticeable is that much of the swearing has been censored. I can hear the Japanese curse word but the subtitles only translated it once or twice out of maybe 5 instances. The British release subtitles it every time. It is a VERY tame word in both English and Japanese. I've heard it used in G rated films.
Problem is the literal meaning in Japanese is stronger word in English but in Japanese it is as mild as the word the subtitles use which is what most translators use.
I recently became aware of how respectful and responsive Shout! Factory is of its fans by way of Zaranyzerak's EXCELLENT YouTube channel, so I just wanted to give you guys props for that. I plan on getting your releases of Beast Wars and G1 next payday.
I have a question about what kind of video quality to expect on these Takara releases. I actually imported the Transformers: Masterforce box set that Madman did in Australia, and was crestfallen to see the great abundance of "ghosting" that occurred on that set. I'm not a perfectionist when it comes to these things, I just found it really distracting. You can see what I mean here:
I understand you're using tape masters, so I know to have reasonable expectations. But I wonder if I can reasonably expect any sort of improvement in that area with your DVDs.
Finally, I'm aware of how incredibly niche the two Japanese Beast Wars anime series and movie are, but it would be cool to see those stateside. I actually bought a couple of episodes from videx.jp in the past. The movie is excellent fun, too, requiring little to no previous experience of the series and having been released in excellent quality in Japan.
Thanks a lot for your time and consideration.
Twitter: @northstarblog Website: blogofthenorthstar.com
I knew Shout! didn't add them because I'd seen the same effect in some bootleg tapes I received about 15 years ago. Does anyone know why the original makers of the show added the effect? It doesn't really work as it draws attention to the flashing effect but draws attention away from the Decepticons. Given the pace of the opening titles sequence and the amount of on screen action, it all adds up to something that just doesn't work well.
----- Original Post -----
by gaastra at 7/26/2011 2:41:32 PM
The flashing transformers were in the original japan version. Shout didn't add them. I'm shocked they kept them in after the whole pokemon flashing lights thing! Guess hasbro isn't worried about kids to close to the screen!
Unfortunately, the Beast Wars anime material has never been released on DVD (nor VHS I believe) in any region, not here, not Europe/Australia, not even in Japan. I don't know if it would even be possible for SHOUT to get their hands on it, never mind the red tape.
----- Original Post -----
by northstarblog at 7/27/2011 6:28:31 AM
Finally, I'm aware of how incredibly niche the two Japanese Beast Wars anime series and movie are, but it would be cool to see those stateside. I actually bought a couple of episodes from videx.jp in the past. The movie is excellent fun, too, requiring little to no previous experience of the series and having been released in excellent quality in Japan.
Thanks a lot for your time and consideration.
Twitter: @northstarblog Website: blogofthenorthstar.com
Beast Wars II and Beast Wars Neo was released on VHS in Japan by Pioneer just shortly of after it air on tv. I have both series recorded to DVD from the original Video tapes.
Is there any chance of the Transformers Takara Collection set for all three series coming out this year? Is there any new tentative date out there since 6 December 2011 is not considered official? For Transformers Victory, are there plans to use just the 32 main episodes or also include the additional 6 clip episodes? Will Transformers Zone be included as a bonus in the complete collection set? For Transformers Masterforce, will the book of masterforce be included as a bonus feature with new subtitles?
We're still waiting on Digibeta stock to become more readily available in Japan. Hoping to have those masters shortly, in an effort to have the complete collection out this year.
Guys, I have a technical question about The Transformers : Headmasters set.
I know it's an old show and that no remastering as been done by Shout! Factory, but I'm experimenting motion blur or ghosting in most of the episodes. Is it normal? In fact, it's more apparent
No one anywhere outside Japan that i know of has released any of the above with the original Japanese language track or bilingual, you could be the first!
