I wrote a checklist on several of the bigger differences between the Rhino episodes and the original broadcast masters when Rhino's set was originally released, so I'm very pleased to hear the exact methodology being used on the first season! The film prints Rhino had retransferred did indeed look exceptionally clear compared to the video masters, especially since season one always suffered the most in this regard due to the film-to-video tape technology of the time.

Therefore, preserving as much of the material as possible direct from the available film prints is easily the best way to do things. Of course, that'll still mean quite a lot of material will be coming from the corrected broadcast masters for the first season at least, but if the corrected film footage is still missing, this will definitely be as good as these episodes will ever look.

"The Heavy Metal War" is obviously the one episode that would require the most attention, but "Fire In The Sky" also needs just as many, if not more, shots to correct, simply due to the animators getting constantly confused with Autobot Skyfire's Decepticon symbol that he sports for most of the episode. Since his symbol is a key plot point of the episode, it'll be especially nice to see this one finally corrected!

When I drew up that list of differences all those years ago, my one big fear was that the Rhino episodes would displace the original ones, which sadly did indeed become the case, with most subsequent DVD releases and even TV broadcasts worldwide using the same awful masters. It will be wonderful to finally watch the first season in the form as it was originally shown on TV back in 1984.

Also very pleased to hear about the commercials coming direct from Hasbro. An obvious question is whether or not all the kids' faces will be blurred. They weren't blurred out on the supplementary material on the live-action Transformers movie disc, and they're crystal-clear on the Japanese DVDs as well.

On that point, if you're after reasonably decent-looking early U.S. commercials, you could do worse than to check out some of the ones included on the Japanese DVDs. To elaborate further, some of the earliest Japanese Transformers commercials were simply re-dubs of the early U.S. ones. I'm not sure how bad Hasbro's own copies of these look, but the Japanese copies may be worth checking out to compare with if you're after the best copies. Also, at least one of the Japanese DVD sets had a great number of decent-quality original U.S. commercials covering 1989-1996. I'm not certain if any of the pre-1989 U.S. commercials were included in English on any of the Japanese sets, but I suspect someone would have uploaded them somewhere by now if they did.

Another important point on the commercials is whether or not the very first one will be included. This one advertised #1 of the Marvel comicbook, was entirely animated, and pre-dates all the other commercials, effectively making this the very first Transformers animation ever produced. Typically, it's also one of the rarest commercials to find in any format!

While season one will require the most extensive re-mastering to ensure all the corrected animation is used, seasons two and three also have a few error scenes on the prints as used by Rhino that were corrected for broadcast. One of the closing scenes of "The Key to Vector Sigma Part 2" (which really puts a mockery on the story's conclusion), and a couple of short sequences in season three's "The Killing Jar" spring to mind, as well as the unique opening credits supposed to be used on every episode of "Five Faces of Darkness", and the bizarre footage of Kup convulsing in the end credits to every third season episode on Rhino's discs.

There's also the matter of Rhino releasing a good number of episodes (including the entire second half) of season two with a 2.0 audio track containing all of Magno Sound's unwelcome sound effects that needs to be corrected. Also, it goes without saying that "Dark Awakening" should at least include the original audio without the added narration at the end, ideally having the added narration as another audio track.

All that we now need are the episodes in chronological order (mostly production order with a few teaks), and from the sounds of things, it looks like this edition of the Transformers TV show will be the long-delayed definitive version that die-hards like myself have been after since 2001!

Jon

My first post.  I would like to know if headmasters, masterforce, victory or zone will get a release?   If they do then will we get the english dub also?  The uk release didn't have the masterforce dub. Only subtitles.  The first episode of headmasters would make a great extra on the complete series set plus you can promote "Includes a never before seen episode of transformers!  First time in america!" on the box.

Zone had a great fandub also so an english version is out there.

Brian, thanks for sharing about the commercials that Hasbro had in their archives. I had inquired about that  while visiting with the Hasbro staff at BotCon. I didn't get a clear answer as to whether they had them or not. Your post clears that up quite a bit. It's just a shame they didn't keep too well.

I'm curious as to whether you will be looking to add all the commercials you aquire, or just one version of them. For instance, the Constructicons have a commercial promoting the individual packs. A later version promoted the Giftset at the end. Also, are you looking to do just the toy commercials, or can you include the ones promoting the comic books as well? Maybe even the Tyco Transformers Train and the Transformers Power Cycle? At the very least, can you include the prime time spot where Alex Karras is promoting Transformers for Christmas?

Nice to know that list was good for something! At this point, I think we can all be safely assured that season one will be fully corrected since the errors on that one are the most obvious. A good website I found illustrating some of the season one problems with actual screencaps was Jeff Jacobson's.

Brian, I'll put together a list of some of the differences seen in Rhino's season two and three episodes. That list will consist only of the difference I've personally noticed, and since no one else has spotted anymore, I think it's safe to assume that we will ultimately have the vast majority, if not all, of the differences for all three seasons covered.

Don't worry, compared with the first season, the season two/three differences make up a much, much shorter list! Certainly for the third season anyway, the majority of the episodes could be ported almost directly from the Rhino sets, as by then fan pressure had got Rhino to specifically include the original audio tracks, in contrast to their release of season two.

One thing I forgot to mention before was the possible inclusion of footage from the fifth season of the series, featuring the Powermaster Optimus Prime stop-motion puppet (authentically voiced by Peter Cullen) talking with the live-action Tommy Kennedy. These episodes were obviously made to capitalize on Hasbro's first all-new Optimus Prime toy since 1984, which was a fairly big deal at the time.

As far as I know, the season five episodes were never rerun after their initial 1988-1989 broadcast, or even syndicated internationally, probably explaining why to this day there are no copies going around even on the internet. It's been claimed that these episodes/sequences were not included on previous DVD releases since actor Jason Janson has been unable to be traced, but I've not seen any direct evidence actually confirming this to be the case. Nevertheless, the inclusion of anything from the long-lost season five would be most welcome!

Along similar lines, representative episodes or clips from seasons one and two of Transformers: Generation 2 wouldn't go amiss, since they at least feature some nice CG opening and ending credits, along with new CG bumpers.

The powermaster prime puppet episode have been found by someone.  They were reviewed on one of the sites awile back plus clips have been posted on youtube before. (later took down).  They would make great extras.  What about the touch music video or the read along book videos?  There was also a live stage show but i guess no one filmed it. 

My first post.  I would like to know if headmasters, masterforce, victory or zone will get a release?   If they do then will we get the english dub also?  The uk release didn't have the masterforce dub. Only subtitles.  The first episode of headmasters would make a great extra on the complete series set plus you can promote "Includes a never before seen episode of transformers!  First time in america!" on the box.

I too, would like to know about this.

Hey Brian,

This is really great that your putting some much time & care into this franchise that shaped my childhood & I'm really looking forward to checking out the complete series set.  Now as someone who not only bought a handful of the FHE VHSs, all of the Rhino DVD releases & both DVD versions of the movie, but as someone who also just upgraded to a Sony Blu-Ray, my question is:

Will the Transformers G1 cartoon ever see the light of day on Blu-Ray disc?

I don't know if something like this really needs to be on Blu Ray being that it was shot for 4x3 TV & how much better can you really make these old 1" masters look(the audio could be uncompressed & video could be encoded at a higher rate, but would we really notice?) though I am really not the authority on that technology.  Even with that, I can just fast forward a few months/years into the future & see myself buying the same episodes again if they ever come out on Bu Ray!

Any thoughts?

-Jared

Hi There,

I am new to this website and I was wondering if Shout has any plans of putting Transformers Season 1 on Blu ray was well??? I would love to see this happen this year as well..

Regards,

Skyfire1973

Interesting, Jon T.

I also remember that when Gen 2 aired in the 90s (replaying the 80s cartoons), at the beginning, end, and before & after commercials, this real-life actor boy would talk to this giant model of Powermaster Optimus Prime.  They would show the full body by itself, then when the actor would talk to him, he'd stand on top of Optimus's cab just feet from his head.  They would talk about the cartoons like they were old war stories, and Optimus (played by Peter Cullen) would either recap what happened or talk about other stuff (can't remember what).  Anyway, I still have them all on VHS tape as well, but I'm not sure how this could fit on this dvd set since they are tied together with about 13 or so episodes from Seasons 1, 3, and 4.

Widescreen:
http://s724.photobucket.com/albums/ww248/yenrab22/?action=view&current=widescreen.jpg

Fullscreen:
http://s724.photobucket.com/albums/ww248/yenrab22/?action=view&current=fullscreen.jpg

Thanks Zaranyzerak. I knew I could just pop the link in but dangit I wanted to make it more professional looking and put the actual pics in side-by-side....oh well
The black bars on the sides and bottom are the TV. The picture is the full picture with nothing cutoff.
To me, it appears the 1.33 ratio shows the most picture. On close observation there is just a hair more picture on each side of the 1.85 cut.

As an owner of over 500 Blu-Ray discs myself, you'd be surprised.  Most TV Series that take 6 DVD's to cover a season of 22-24 episodes are done in 4 or 5 on Blu-Ray in 1080i or 1080p HD with high-def audio and a ton of HD exclusives like Picture in Picture commentary or extra featurettes.  Here's hoping that this dearly beloved series someday gets released with the full HD treatment, but for now I'll show my support and buy the DVD's.

Hello,

A few questions.

I'm wondering about the single releases vs. the complete series release. How much extra content will there be on the complete series release over the singles? Will it be worth just waiting for the complete release, or can I just go ahead and buy the singles with out missing anything to important?

Commercials: Will there be a play all feature incluced? So we can just watch all the commercials from each season without having to keep going back through the menu system. Just how bad do the Hasbro tapes look? Are they any better than the ones we've seen on say the "25th Ann. TF the movie" extras commercials?

Greetings!

As a longtime fan of both Transformers and G.I. JOE, I could not be more pleased by all of this news. I was one of the first to complain in 2002 when the Rhino DVD sets started coming out, and I have complained many times in the years since!

I still remember that day in 2002 when I bought Rhino's TF season 1 set, only to have my heart sink when I first heard the added sound effects in the pilot episode's opening titles. I was similar burned by the errors and problems in the subsequent sets (and with G.I. JOE, too--I tried to find out if Rhino's Original Miniseries DVD had the added sounds before buying it, and only discovered that they did for sure when I popped the discs into my DVD player).

After seven long years, I am very pleased to see what is happening with these releases. It's been a long and painful wait. All I ever wanted was DVD sets of the episodes as they originally were. As a lover of film and TV history, it's very important to me that both series be preserved properly--

*Original broadcast video and audio

*Correct main/end titles and credits. Rhino's season 1 set features the season TWO end credits over the season one background footage, "The Master Builders" became "The Master Builder", "a Deceptacon Raider in King Arthur's Court" was corrected--I feel the misspelling has historical value--, etc.

*Correct episode order (or at least one that makes sense--not Rhino's order)

*Commercial bumpers and commercials.

*Both versions of "Dark Awakening".

Any good bonus features would just be gravy. I really have only wanted the episodes to be properly presented as they originally aired.

THANK YOU!

Here are some of the many threads regarding the Rhino DVD problems I've started or posted in over the years (And, yes, I am aware that I seemed a bit obsessive in those days! But Rhino REALLY made me mad with their frustrating, error-ridden releases.). I've always tried to make people aware of the problems and to keep track of all of the specific issues (especially in terms of animation and historical accuracy problems). Hopefully, they'll contain helpful information (assuming you haven't already seen them during your research, of course). I'm far more of an expert on TF than on JOE, but, as I understand it, Rhino's JOE DVDs weren't nearly as problematic as their TF releases.

 I offer any and all assistance you'll let me provide. Feel free to contact me.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers.classic.moderated/browse_thread/thread/7740f28107561346/c565ced1279bc99c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/browse_thread/thread/79ac5726cc13ce26/6959e1b099539b91?hl=en&lnk=gst

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/browse_thread/thread/6e08d41f09948d8e/3ef3d691c4c07bdd?hl=en&lnk=gst

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/browse_thread/thread/bd90e7d42d7662e2/343d5abeadabce41?hl=en&lnk=gst

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/browse_thread/thread/c28b95f5791efe1d/23f3930e16782c14?hl=en&lnk=gst

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers.classic.moderated/browse_thread/thread/6dcaed9131ebc925/6779da639a6f59e2?hl=en&lnk=gst

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/browse_thread/thread/f259022408de5e7f/7e89a71cac85b50a?hl=en&lnk=gst

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/browse_thread/thread/968807fec43425a/e63404b29ef8d384?hl=en&lnk=gst

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/browse_thread/thread/6e08d41f09948d8e/93cdf62cf98ee545?hl=en&lnk=gst

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/browse_thread/thread/ae2d82d6a7cc306d/b8623167f3a22019?hl=en&ie=UTF-8

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/sd-dvd-tv-shows-tv-movies/216647-transformers-gi-joe-dilemma.html

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/sd-dvd-film-documentary/235653-transformers-thoughts-sony-bmg.html

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/sd-dvd-tv-shows-tv-movies/164121-rhino-transformers-gi-joe-end-innocence.html

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/sd-dvd-film-documentary/201778-paramount-re-original-transformers.html

I'm glad you're here, Jon! You've always had a good eye for spotting the trouble spots on the Rhino DVDs. Those do appear to be the majority of the problems with season 2 and 3 (along with the few I mentioned upthread).

Season 1 by far has the most problems (and should be the priority, since Shout!'s version will be out quite soon), with something wrong in pretty much every episode (either sound or animation or both--even minor things like the different flippy-symbol bumpers in MTMTE that I mentioned previously). "Countdown to Extinction" was the only episode in any DVD set that Rhino transferred directly and completely from the broadcast master tape (but it still has the season 2 end credits), so it's basically okay.

Of course, the special features in Rhino's season 1 set include side-by-side comparisons of the 1" and 35mm masters for a good bulk of numerous episodes, which makes pinning down the errors much easier--and also showed just how asleep at the wheel Rhino's people were when working on the set in terms of finding and correcting the errors.

 My ideal DVD set would contain episodes as close to the original broadcasts as humanly possible--including original errors and creative choices (the camera shaking in "The Core", the misspelled "A Deceptacon Raider...", etc.).

I'm working on rounding up other experts on these matter for consultation.

Another old thread listing Rhino vs. broadcast differences that it appears I forgot to link to above:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/browse_thread/thread/337c62d5a6dbbd6f/2ecb7b1e26813246?hl=en&ie=UTF-8

EDIT: I see that Jon already linked it above.

By the way, Mr. Ward, have ya received my contact info yet? I sent it to the general info e-mail address last night.

And, as stated, I've been contacting other experts and referring them to this thread.

Hey, Brian! I have to thank you for this thread... I was tempted to skip the Shout Factory releases, but you've convinced me that they'll be worthwhile.

This is a ridiculous, far-fetched request, but it doesn't hurt to ask...

The best extra I think I've ever seen on any cartoon DVD is on the Robotech Protoculture Collection. Amongst many fantastic extras (commercials, alternate versions of episodes, convention footage, etc.), there is a completely random toy presentation made by Matchbox to sell Robotech toys to major toy store chains/investors/etc. I realize that including something like this on the Transformers release relies on

a) someone at Hasbro having taped footage like this

and

b) someone at Hasbro having held on to footage like this

but it was absolutely fascinating to see such a behind the scenes look at the making/selling/marketing of toys. The Robotech toyline was (let's face it) fairly mediocre, but the footage was incredible... Something like this with Transformers would be terrific. Any chance at all...?

I'd like to hear audio commentaries by people involved with the series, not necessarily the voice actors, but anyone who could talk about the episodes, even fan commentaries can be fun if done right. 

Also I'd like to add the desire for a photo gallery of rare and unusual Transformers merchandise.  I know there are a lot of prototype figures, sample card backs and other strange pieces of interest that might be fun to look at. 

Just a few ideas.  I'm looking forward to replacing my Rhino DVD's or at least adding these to the collection. 

that episode order looks fine. though i personally always thought the ultimate doom/countdown to extinction shouldve been the "finale" of the season.

speaking of episode order, PLEASE!!!! get the ones with the aerilbots, stunticons and combaticons in the right order? we dont want to see a repeat of episodes that feature these guys BEFORE they are created in the show. rhino had aerial assault BEFORE starscreams brigade. the combaticons first appearance was in starscreams brigade, but the way rhino had it, they were around for an ep and then they were created. it was crazy...

That 3 parter of Red Dwarf series 8 "Back in the Red pts. 1-3" was seamlessly blended together...its like watching a movie...so it can be done

I believe the Madman (Region 4/Australia) and Maverick (Region 2/UK) DVDs both use the broadcast masters for the image, with the Rhino audio. You might want to track those sets down for reference, or find someone who has them.

Agreed.

Here are some lists of what appears to be correct original airdates, but some episodes could use a bit of shuffling for continuity.

http://www.ntfa.net/ntfa/g1/eplist.php (the list can reflect either broadcast or production order, thanks to a link on the page)

Wikipedia also has a lists of the episodes in production order and chronological order:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Transformers_episodes

And some musings on proper order:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/browse_thread/thread/c5b6f5f02e16ac6c/b4c40b9cbed48ea7?hl=en&ie=UTF-8

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/browse_thread/thread/de1d1f8478a55602/d9d74cc72fadf6c3?hl=en&ie=UTF-8

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/browse_thread/thread/8a59dcea29cc7a06/e98a21b32abb2868?hl=en&ie=UTF-8

And I think "The Gambler" should follow "Child's Play", "Dark Awakening" should come early in season 3, as originally presented, not before "The Return of Optimus Prime", etc.

Nothing to really add here, just wanted to say that I'm really excited about the upcoming Transformers and G.I. Joe releases. Shout! Factory has done an excellent job with other animation titles in the past, and I'm looking forward to the treatment our beloved shows will be recieving.

Thanks very much!
-Chris

Another informative and helpful website (with episode guides/credits, voice actor/character credits, etc.):

http://cybertronchronicle.freewebspace.com/cartoon-dossier/episodeguide.html

Hello Brian!

Like you, I'm  a 30-something (35) fan of the original show, toys, & comics. I have the Chinese box set (which was based on the Rhino release), and I have a complete set of the original comics line (USA). I fully support your new release of the series and will buy a copy when it becomes available

Anyway, I know this out of the realm for DVD, but I did some remastering and restorations myself of the original 3-part pilot episodes. I took it a step further by reversing the telecine process and recontructed every frame by hand into the original 24-fps format. I then used digital cleaning and noise reduction algorithms on each frame. The result ended up being a 4-GB video file with absolutely fantistic visual quality and animation. Its amazing how much better these shows look in 24-fps format as opposed to the telecine process for NTSC broadcast. You can see some example screenshots of my work in this web page I made detailing my restoration process:

http://www.firebrandx.com/tfrestoration.html

Take special notice of my comparison shot of the original DVD frame and my restored frame blow it. Imagine what I could do with the original masters! I'd love to do it for a Blu-Ray set with 24-fps format, but one can only dream...

With regard to what order the episodes should be in, my vote is for sticking with production order except where this blatantly contradicts events in the episodes. The seemingly staggered order of the Skyfre/Dinobot episodes doesn't really create any such blatant problems, and is supported by certain dialogue such as Megatron's comments at the start of "War of the Dinobots", which suggest some time has passed after "S.O.S. Dinobots".

Therefore season one wouldn't need reordering. However, season two's "The Gambler" and "Aerial Assault" would definitely need to be re-ordered accordingly, as well as season three's "Starscream's Ghost", "Thief in the Night", and "Fight or Flee", which are all interconnected. "Grimlock's New Brain" and "Money is Everything would need to swap places as well. It's also believed that "The Quintesson Journal" and "The Big Broadcast of 2006" need to be swapped, but there are no explicit connections between the episodes other than them featuring the eponymous journals, which may or may not be the same one between both episodes.

Aside from these episodes, all the others are fine as is in production order, and indeed basing the chronological order mostly on production order seems to be the most accepted consensus. BCI's He-Man and She-Ra sets followed the same example. Rhino didn't re-order any of the season two episodes, but did take into account the chronological order of most of the affected season three episodes. Of course, Rhino also greatly re-ordered a far wider number of season three episodes for no obvious reason as well!

Back to error-spotting, there was one more glitch I missed on Rhino's DVDs, from "Starscream's Brigade". When Devastator's head emerges during the Constructicon's transformation towards the end of the story, there's a brief repeated frame from much earlier in the episode which didn't occur on the broadcast master. Conversely, the broadcast master has a glitch in the animation when the Stunticons are busy trashing cars which doesn't occur in Rhino's version. This episode must have had a couple of production problems when they were making it!

I heard japan aired the dinobots episodes back to back as a two-parter. 

Three people have asked about headmasters, masterforce, and victory and no answer yet.  Can you tell us if you guys have the rights to these shows?

By the way i have some old comic ads from the 80s of transformers like one for transformers popsicles and a transformers flashlight!  I could send  them to you in an email if you want.

Someone on tfw2005 awile back had photos of the 80s transformers live at universal studios including shots of the costumes and a optimus prime vs megatron statue.  Maybe you can talk to them about the pictures?

I believe the Japanese Headmaster series ends with the destruction of Cybertron, correct?  I seem to remember watching the episode on YouTube with English subtitles.

Does anyone have a link? 

It may be a little late, but I have a vhs tape that has almost all of season 1 on it.  I haven't played it in maybe a decade, so I'm not sure about the quality, but it is the original broadcast version of I think every episode but the one with the insecticons (ep 15).  These were taped off of channel 11 in new york, some even have original 80s commercials on them though I don't think any are transformers.  I would gladly lend it to you if you think it would help in fixing the errors in the rhino release.

Tim

Brian,

Here's clips of the Japanese Headmasters episodes, for example: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=8A4061AB1F44BDB3

"E-Z-B, I actually own the Japanese Headmasters sets myself.  Like I said, I'm a lifer.  Unfortunately, however, these shows--due to Japanese cast agreements--are a FORTUNE.  I would love to say we'd be including something on our set, but I'm afraid it's pretty close to impossible."

Well that sucks.  Why is america the only country not allowed to have these?  Even mexico got them on tv. Guess i'll have to order the au sets. Won't get the uk ones becouse masterforce and victory don't have the english dub but the au one does. 

Too bad there never was a dub with original cast.

Alternity_Convoy,

The audio stays in perfect sync with the video. The software I used knows the overall time length stays the same no matter what the frame rate is, so there is no change to the smoothness or timing of the audio in my restored version. As I said before, the finished product is amazing to watch, and I've already been getting requests to send out to fans who've read my page.

Also I should point out the Rhino 3:2 pulldown process was horrible. If you try to automate an inverse telecine process on it based on a standard 3:2 pulldown order, you quickly become out of sync on the frames and combing artifacts show up all over the place. In my restored version, I had to assign a manual frame combination code for EVERY frame in the one-hour pilot. This means I had to write code for each of the 113,000+ frames by hand. While doing so, I found Rhino's 3:2 pulldown randomly and chaotically changed orders throughout the entire series. I had to use a video frame editor and combine each frame both forward and backwords in order to determine which fields belonged to which frame. I still have a copy of my frame assignment file and it's filled with thousands of hand-typed entries. You can imagine it took me many hours of work to restore the pilot to 24 fps. It was worth it, and if I had access to the masters and my own scanner, I'd do a Blu-Ray 24fps version of the entire series. For those that don't know, there is a Blu-Ray 24fps format that can be viewed on HD sets that support it. There are videophiles that specifically built their home theater around this format. It's a niche market right now, but I expect it to grow in the future as the technology continues to become cheaper & cheaper.

By the way, I have the Blu-Ray Metronome release of the 1986 movie and it's a real mixed bag. You can clearly see spots where they didn't have the original print and used video footage to fill it out. I'm to understand that these scenes may be lost for good, which is a real shame.

Looking forward to getting both complete series sets. It' very exciting news.

Glad to hear that G.I. JOE: THE MOVIE is in the pipe for a future release. The Rhino DVD is long-since OOP, and didn't feature much in the way of extras (PSAs from the series, and commercials for the original miniseries--which Rhino apparently thought was advertising the movie).

I would hope, though, that Shout! does eventually do something with TFTM, if for no reason other than to say that they released EVERYTHING in the TF and JOE series. The Sony 20th anniversary release is pretty good, but it's not easy to find in stores, and there are a number of issues. The colors are bit bit off, particularly in the open-matte version. The extras are pretty good (particularly the interviews and rare footage), but there's still room for improvement--more storyboards, ""The Touch" music video,  maybe the script, etc.

Also--although I do indeed like the TF season 1 packaging (which I don't really have to worry about, since I intend to get the Matrix set), I'm mildly miffed that the JOE set uses art based on the proper Sunbow/Marvel animation models, while the TF set uses more modern, generic art, with all those extra greeblies on the characters.

This whole project looks like a winner, though. I've seen nothing to dissuade me thus far. There's clearly a LOT of care going into these sets--from the restoration efforts to the extras to the packaging. Even these input threads are really great, and show that Shout! is listening to the fans.

Bravo!

More relevant threads:

http://forum.transformersdvd.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15&PN=1

http://forum.transformersdvd.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=255&PN=11

I'd forgotten about "Labolotory" and "Trucks".

Raymond T. is one of the big experts to track down. I tried e-mailing him, but got no response. Anyone else have any ideas?

(WOAH! Can't believe I missed these: http://forum.transformersdvd.com/uploads/RaymondT/2005-08-02_223330_4-1.jpg

http://forum.transformersdvd.com/uploads/RaymondT/2005-08-02_223503_5-1.jpg )

Hey, you beat me to it. (That's my site. ;))

As I mentioned at the end of that write-up, the end credits (as well as the title cards) were re-created for the Rhino DVDs, and have errors (the most notable being the font error with Norm McCabe's name-sort of embarrassing since the guy was a notable animator for the old Looney Tunes). The credits to Seasons 2 and 3 were similarly re-created, and have a slightly different font. Also, the "Written By" text for the title cards has a larger font in the Rhino DVDs, and the letters look to be further spaced out, as well.

Act 2 of "War Dawn" should be slowed down, hands down. I have FHE Volume 12, and it's slowed down there, and my VHS bootleg copy of the episode from the '90s appears to be from broadcast, and it's slowed down there, as well.

Act 2 of "War Dawn" was slowed down due to an error when they originally ran the film for the episode. Rhino's simple speed correction (which they were advised on), thankfully already addressed and corrected this.

But if the goal is to restore the episodes to their broadcast versions, the error should be upheld.

I may not be understanding this correctly, but you're suggesting that an easily-correctable error like this, that would not require invasive procedures to correct, should be upheld?

That strikes me as more than a little extreme, especially as Rhino already went back and ran the act at the correct speed. Keeping such an easily-correctable error in the episode would only detract from everyone's viewing experience, especially first-time watchers who'll be picking the set up due to the hype from Revenge of the Fallen.

Anyone want to take any votes on this? :)

I don't think it would be hard to include both the original and corrected audio tracks--I was kinda hoping that was what Rhino had done. Of course, their DVD had corrected 5.1 and 2.0 tracks--but with the added sound effects.

Is it what it is, y'know? The errors and such are are part of the charm. Also, I'm a strong proponent of keeping DVD releases of any show or movie historically accurate to the original versions. Sure, corrections can be made in certain areas--but only if the original is also made available.

Whenever I think of "errors being corrected" and "Transformers" in the same sentence, the first thing that comes to mind is Rhino's nasty cut-and-paste job with Mirage becoming visible at the end of "The Ultimate Doom Part 3", quickly followed by most of "Heavy Metal War". Yikes!

Can we really be blamed for being leery about any "corrections"?

Brian, I'd like to discuss in private email with you about my restoration project and how I might could still be of service for the new set you are releasing.  My email can be found on my webpage: www.firebrandx.com. It's important and definitely worth your time if you'd be willing to talk in email. Send me a quick email so I can reply if you would. Thanks!

Brian, in the case of War Dawn, the 1" master is WRONG and Rhino's was correct.  Yes, it aired that way, but it was very annoying.  The characters talked slowly like they were on dope and the music was notably slower as well.  It literally gives me a headache to watch that version.

I was one of the people that informed Rhino about the War Dawn error in advance so that they could correct it and I don't regret doing so in the slightest.  That may have been the way it did air (in the US at least), but it was not the way it was INTENDED to air.

Anyone know where I can preorder the Matrix Edition box set? I can't seem to find it on either this site or Amazon.

If Sunbow screwed up (and they did, there's no question), they never fixed it, and this was a studio that edited two episodes of G.I. Joe (and nearly pulled a third altogether) because of concerns over content. I'd need to check, but the Rhino version of the episode may also be shorter than the standard 22:45. That could certainly help illustrate some amount of intent.

Besides, my point is that we don't know *what* the Sunbow staff was thinking at the time. If my hypothesis is correct, for instance, then slowing down Act 2 (always the shortest act in Sunbow shows) was the cheapest and quickest method to fix a problem at a time when it was either that, or dead air. If anything, the original and corrected Acts 2 can both be featured using branching to satisfy the watchability vs. historical accuracy debate.

I've seen a ton of folks posting about "this error here" and "that error there"....don't these discs have to be authored soon???

Sure it would be great to have all the episode just like everyone wants but shouldn't this thread and announcement have been started six months ago....otherwise how would any of these requests be entertained with the release just around the corner?

I would love to have perfect episodes but this just seems unrealistic. Are you getting sleep B. Ward????

Grimbot, for a fan video that's a bit more germane to the G1 series, this one is my personal favorite:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjW7DBAdmF8&feature=channel_page

Since Rhino released both versions (original--without end narration--on VHS, and revised version on DVD), they must have had access to both audio tracks.

If Brian only has one version available for some reason, it shouldn't be hard for someone to get him the audio for the other version.

That is a very concise and correct explaination. If nothing else, this release is a matter of historical preservation--archving the proper, original versions on disc. Hopefully, the new DVD masters will supplant Rhino's flawed ones, which themselves supplanted the originals.

I have absolutely no desire in keeping the original VHS tape, nor am I interested in collecting additional piles of stuff, the least of which is because of space issues. I'm interested in preserving the series as it originally aired. It is not our place to change an error made by the Sunbow staff. What's next-correcting every instance of mis-colored Seekers in the episodes?

We're lucky to even be in the position to have the episodes as aired-a great many cartoons (including ones from Disney) are only available in altered form. The Filmation library is presumed to exist only in time-compressed (and, in some instances, edited and/or unrestored) form. Disney seems hell-bent on replacing Rob Walsh's music in home video releases of Dungeons & Dragons for reasons unknown (in addition to obliterating the Marvel logo and the pre-episode previews). Some source elements for Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends and the '82 Hulk cartoon may exist only in the form of 16mm prints currently held in the hands of a fan. The original titles to most of Disney's black and white cartoons (and many from their color ones, as well) were destroyed when discarded upon theatrical re-release after the studio had changed distributors. And that's merely scratching the surface. We should be happy that we *can* have as-broadcast copies of G.I. Joe and The Transformers when so many other shows will never have that luxury.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcrQYD-lqQs

Another great comparison video. I only wish that you'd done all of season 1 sooner, so that the Shout! gang could have had reference for the entire season's DVD errors.

Sorry Gregatron! I didn't get your E-mail before, but I received your latest a few moments ago. Thanks for the heads up.

By way of introduction, my (screen)name is Raymond T. I'm from Amsterdam, the Netherlands and I have been one of the biggest Transformers fans (or TransFanatic as I like to say) from the very start. For the last several years I have been involved with www.seibertron.com and mostly with the news section of this site. In the past I have been one of several fan-advisers for Metrodome with their DVD releases of the G1 series and the movie, and was even asked two write a little article in the booklet for their DVD Release of Transformers: The Movie - Reconstructed. And several years ago I've held small scaled meet and greet sessions in Amsterdam in the past with Neil Kaplan (Optimus Prime in Robots In Disguise) and David Kaye (Megatron of the Beast Wars and Armada series and current Optimus Prime in Transformers Animated). Currently I am involved with organizing an annual Transformers Convention in the Netherlands, together with Hasbro NL, which this year will be held on June 14th. www.tf-conversions.com. I collect anything and everything that is Transformers related. But mostly I try to collect information and spread my knowledge around whenever I can. So yeah, I think I might be a Transformers-fan. ;)

I would be thrilled and honored if there was something I might be able to contribute to any future Transformers project. If there is anything I could help with, even all the way from little old Amsterdam, I would be happy to offer my aid. If there is anything I might be able to lend a hand with, please let me know what to do.

I must admit that I haven't read through this thread yet, seeing as I was about to turn in, when I got Greg's e-mail. And so I had to give my little nod. But I will do so, the moment I have some free time.

Raymond T.
(Should  I turn my text blue now? ;) )

The speed issues in "Fire on the Mountain" and "War Dawn" are intrinsically different. In the former, the errors surfaced on a VHS re-issue in the '90s, whereas the latter actually aired on television. You can't just equate damage to the master tape with a mistake that made its way to the public.

While I certainly welcome your opinion, I don’t care that “War Dawn” aired with a slow-playing second act. I’m glad to overlook animation errors for the nostalgia effect, but I believe it was intended to run at normal speed and that is how I would like to purchase it on DVD.

----- Original Post -----
by GarrettCRW at 4/24/2009 4:56:02 PM

"War Dawn" aired with a slow-playing second act. There's no doubt in my mind that that error should be upheld.

Hey, Raymond T.--can you elaborate on this old quote from another thread?

"Mis-spellings like Labolotory or Trucks instead of Tracks."

Which Rhino DVD episodes are these errors in? As I recall, I think they're from "Traitor" and "Make Tracks", but I'm not sure.

Also, due to time constraints, we need to identify as many season 2, 3, and 4 errors as possible so that the correct 1" broadcast master footage can be substituted. Anyone who can help, please chime in!

Here's some ultra rare footage from the awakening of Optimus Prime, including Kup's new name:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq1_6D9QS9Y

The misspelling of Labolotory is seen in the background plate in Traitor. 'Trucks' is seen on the back of Track's Hollywood chair in Hoist Goes To Hollywood aka Hoist Does Hollywood. They were obvious errors, however I'm not completely sure that they were corrected in the tapes that got aired, back in the 80's.

The errors on the season 2, 3 and 4 releases are very minor, barring the obvious sound glitches that were the problem with the dvd production of Rhino, rather than mastertape errors. It has been a while since I watched the G1 DVD's. I'd have to re-watch them to pick out any mistakes, that were not in the originals. I'd love to compare my old VHS tapes with the Rhino DVD's to make certain... But unfortunately, I don't have the time watch them all, let alone watch them and compair them.

Although I did put this one together a while ago, as something I was trying as an option. ;)

http://www.seibertronianspacestation.com/Seibs/TF-16-HMW.wmv

That wasn't animated. It was part of a cell artwork to test out before animating it. They toyed with the idea not to give Optimus Prime a face-cover, because it would help him better to emote. But with the voice of Peter Cullen as Optimus Prime to work with, it was soon decided that a mouth wasn't needed and that it was better to keep the trademark face similar to the toy's.

And as you very well know, there are more of these test-designs floating around. Like Megatron with a black helmet and the seekers with black undefined faces and so forth... Many of which still appeared in the earliest of commercials.

Speaking of War Dawn and earlier the suggestion of scripts,... I would LOVE to see the original draft scripts of the episodes. One of the more famous 'never animated scenes' is the death scene of Orion Pax. Written by David Wise, in the original version, he had Megatron not just blast a hole into the chest of young Orion. But had Megatron completely beat him down and rip one of his arms of his body. Struggling for his last breath Orion made a comment in the trend of "Who do you think you are", to which Megatron replies "You worst nightmare" and then proceeds to decapitate Orion Pax by using his own arm as a baseball bat do do it. A piece of info that makes the end of the episode, where Megatron asks who Optimus Prime is, all the more powerful.

Also, I would love to have a look at some of the proposal drafts that never got scripted for animation. Some 50 to 150 proposals were never used and given to marvel comics. One of these proposals was a story of how the season two characters found their way to Earth 4 million years ago, after they lost contact with Optimus Prime and the others after their encounter with the meteorshower in the pilot. I recently came in contact with someone who claims to have been a stagiare at Marvel Comics during their run with the Transformers Comics, and claims to have seen a bunch of these never used proposals, including the one I just described...

While this doesn't necessarily prove the existence of an animated pilot presentation, animation writer Jeffrey Scott states on his website resume that he wrote a pilot episode for Transformers entitled "A Robot's Best Friend Is His Dog", at the very least suggesting that the original direction for the series may have been skewed to a much younger audience.

http://www.jeffreyscott.tv/FullCredits.htm#Transformers

If anyone can afford to wrangle this script from him, it may make for a fascinating insight into the early days of Marvel Productions' work on Transformers.

I know there was a Presentation video circulating at toystores the world over. I have a vivid memory sitting infront of a tv set at a large toystore here in Amsterdam in 1984, watching a presentation of Transformers, that was basically a longer versions and pasted together of the animation you can see in the various early toy commercials.

The bible is not a drawn out script of things to come. A TV bible is a collection of snippets, ideas, suggestions, proposals, sketches, that may work within the canon of the used storyline. It is a concept that was started with Gene Roddenberry, when he used this method to keep things straight between the various episodes and season of the original StarTrek. As campy as the show was due to the era and the low budget, this method prooved to work as it is one of the few shows of that time that always remained true to itself. Roddenberry called this collection of scripts, proposals and nicknacks 'his bible', and that's where the name, to this day, comes from. So if someone has written something for a show's bible, it just means a story was submitted that may fit within the boundries of the storyline. Suggestions made could be ommitted from the bible at a later date as more of the story is produced for airing.

Wally Burr still owns large portions of the bible of the G1 Transformers show. I've held part s of it in my own hands when Burr had brought them with him when he was invited at the 2004 BotCon. (I was there on my 30th birthday. Best present I ever gave myself) Including much of the earlier drafts, like Ratbat being a Autobot cassette tape, for instance. If you want to start somewhere to piece the bible back together again, you should start with him.

LOL! That "Rude Awakening of Optimus Prime" video was hysterical! Thanks for sending that! Also, interesting about that Transformers bible. I wish the entire Sunbow TF bible could be assembled somewhere to be read.

Further compounding things is that Jeffrey Scott was a staff writer for Marvel in 1984. However, Sunbow as we know it (the offices in LA, basically) may not have existed as we know it. The earliest Joe scripts were written around May of '84-a month before the "Transport to Oblivion" script that's over at BigBot. MTMTE was likely written during one of two intervals: around May of '84, or at the beginning of the year, around the time Ron Friedman wrote his Revenge of Cobra script (ROC's models and layouts have March '84 dates on them). I'm going to argue that MTMTE was written earlier on, because Hasbro and Griffin/Bacal assigned Marvel to do the bulk of the writing because they were busy playing with Bloom and MTMTE and trying to sell it to an actual network at the same time. Scott's script was part of this presentation, and the "specials" mentioned may well be MTMTE. Scott's work was for that presentation. The network presentation failed (and from the sound of it, would have been a bit awful anyways), and Hasbro decided to go full on with the series we know now, meaning that all the messes (bad animation errors, bad transfers, even the last-minute additions of the transitions in early eps) with season one are the result of the attempt to sell it to a network. (Joe, with its track record in syndication, skips this step, possibly because of the TF drama, which allowed them to attract Steve Gerber, who was recommended by a Marvel staffer because of his work on D&D.)

Oh, and save that somewhere, because I bet Brian will totally prove me wrong with the TF special features. :D

As for "War Dawn", I checked the DVDs. The episode runs 15 seconds short. I'm going to speculate that Act 2 was slowed down because of the scripted fate of Orion Pax. Wise refused to "fix" the scene (hence Pax "flying" as he is shot), leading to a deficit of 15 seconds, leading to Act 2, the short Act, being slowed down to fit the series' normal 22:45 runtime.

I believe the pilot (which originally was an untitled episode) was scripted late 1983, as several voice actors have claimed to have recorded the voices in the final weeks of 1983. Which would make sense since the animation was done after the recordings were made. And with it being a pilot, I'm sure the production of the pilot would have gone back and forth before getting it right.

I am pretty sure that George Arthur Bloom was specifically hired to write the script for the pilot. Which makes a pilot-script written by someone else very unlikely to me. The basic concept was written by Griffin/Bacal and Bob Budianski who also did the concept for the Marvel comics, and created all the profiles for the season 1 characters. It's not that I question Scott's claim that he had written a script, I just doubt it was a pilot episode, which may just be remembered wrong.

Orion's death scene was never animated. It didn't even make it into the production draft of the script. It could just be that an error had crept in that Sunbow tried to fix and that this was a better solution.

As far as the writing staff were concerned, they were working for Marvel. In fact, writer (and Production Coordinator) Paul Davids states in this interview that Marvel had their own floor dedicated to the series with Stan Lee himself based elsewhere in the building!

This interview with Bryce Malek clarifies Jeffrey Scott's early involvement by stating he wrote the bible used to try and sell the show to the networks, an attempt which obviously failed. The pilot script was undoubtedly written alongside this original network bible. It stands to reason as a network series, it would have contained less violence than the final syndicated series, which seems to be supported by the distinctly "kid-friendly" title of Scott's episode.

The timeline appears to be this:

1983
Jim Shooter and Dennis O'Neil craft names and personailities for the Transformers.

November 1983
O'Neil is out and Bob Budiansky produces his own set of names and personalities, largely displacing O'Neil's versions, which is accepted by Hasbro. (The date comes from this interview with Budiansky)

Early 1984
Jeffrey Scott produces the original animated bible with the intent to sell the show to a network, using Budiansky's work as a base.

Summer 1984
The bible is given a minor revamp since the series is now targeted to syndication.

Anyone after citable information on the series' production staff should check out Rik Bakke's many interviews at The Cybertron Chronicle. I think anything else is probably just too much unverifiable speculation unless someone gets actual quotes from further production staff.

At the very least, Shout's interview with Bob Budiansky should provide a valuable insight into all the early history of the Transformers story and characters and hopefully clarify some of this even further!

Again, I am not doubting Jeffrey Scott's involvement with the show. And I don't doubt that he wrote 'a' script for Transformers to be submitted. I just doubt that he wrote a script to be used as a pilot episode, knowing how hard Hasbro, Griffin/Bacal and Marvel worked on the script that became the pilot. I'm just suggesting that the details after some 25 years may have gotten blurred a bit.

And again, the bible is not some book of stories that is being produced. It is a compendium that is used as a reference for future episodes/stories. The original StarTrek bible, I believe, consisted of 4 filing cabinets. Filled with scripts, designs, footnotes fabric swabs and other such knickknacks.
A bible changes as the show continues. New items are added as the show progresses, some previous items maybe ommited as they may conflict with plots that were actually used in the show. That is the natural progression of a TV show's bible.

It was originally the intend for the Transformers cartoon to play out in outerspace after the pilot. But when the concept prooved to be too expensive, the outerspace concept was dropped until late season 2 and onward from season 3. There should still exist some concept drawings from Floro Dery designed for the outerspace episodes that were never used or produced.

That's odd, because the Joe staff interviews out there (mainly the old ones from joeheadquarters.com, plus a few that Dave Thornton drudged up over at JoeGuide) make it fairly clear that they were working directly for Sunbow. In fact, at Steve Gerber's memorial at the New York Comicon last year, Hildy Mesnik screened a Christmas video that was sent to the New York Sunbow offices in '86 as a sort of Christmas card, and among the scenes that the report featured was Gerber answering calls about the death of Prime ("Yes, he's *still* dead!") and Marv Wolfman hitting on a cardboard cutout of Jem, which would date as to when they were working on TF.

Wow,this is huge. First,lets give a congrads to Shout Factory for re-releasing Transformers. This is a second chance,not only for me, but for many who missed out on the chance to buy the season 1 set in 02'. When it went out of print,I thought I would never see it released again on dvd.But now,the opportunity is there again. Better yet, we're getting extras along with restored footage. All I can say is... On June 16th, there WILL definitely be more than meets the eye.

I will be in shock if this release does not surpass the sales of the mario bros cartoons.

I've got video footage of the dutch Transformers Convention I help put together each year. If you're interested, let me know.

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=BOTSnl&view=videos

Our next convention is on June 14th.

http://www.tf-conversions.com/

I am new to this site, so I am sorry if this question has already been answered; Any firm or approx. dates on when the other seasons or the complete set will be released?

I can not tell you how exited I am about getting a second chance to get these episodes on DVD for myself. I am about 30 years old now and loved watching Transformers when I was a kid.

I have looked into buying the Rhino set but they are impossible to find and utlra expensive on e-bay. (Also from what some of you have said in previous posts is that it is not the best quality.)

Thanks to B Ward and Shout! for bringing Transformers back on DVD, I have been waiting for a long time!!!

Also, will the complete set be distributed to stores like Best Buy or Target?

Omega Supreme, I have been looking into this on other sites and it looks like late July for the Matrix of Leadership Set. This information was not from Shout!, but the articles were about Shout!'s release of this set.

If this information is correct I would love for someone to confirm this date. If not please correct me!

 and i know my spelling sucks  

Just finished my TF cartoon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlJlnZ_hO8Q

(it uses music by Jerry Goldsmith but I could re-do music track with TF:TM score)